How to handle shooters who want to be in two divisions

[MojitoCalido]

We are a small club who gets 15-32 shooters per match.  Most of the shooters are from out of town, so there are only 2-4 of us locals that run the match and do all of the pre and post match tasks.  People are great with teardown and setup help if we do it day of, but its not uncommon to have only 2 of us that can RO the entire match.

 

Here is my question for all of you.  How do you handle shooters that want to shoot in two divisions?  I'm not opposed to it, and I totally get why people want to do it, but it does put more pressure on the few of us that are already overburdened.  When others want to double up, it means that they have even less time to help with score keeping, brassing, pasting, sweeping, which puts even more load on us.  Additionally, I feel like I can't shoot two divisions because I'm already RO'ing half of the match.  So, we really end up punishing the people who are already doing most of the work, and creating legitimate reasons for others to contribute less.  Your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[selecw]

How many are in your squads? I would think with 10 or so, and shooters assisting you, then it wont be a problem.

[dons]

Our club allows a "second gun" to compete for a lesser charge. But you're right, it does put an extra burden on everybody else. My thought is that we as a shooting community should support all shooters rather than dissuade those who may want to shoot twice. And bear the burdens that come with that support. I believe that you will find eventually more of your participants will want to become more involved and will become ROs.

[motosapiens]

We just don't do it in USPSA matches. You shoot one gun. If someone wanted to shoot two and was wiling to show up with the setup crew and stay to tear down, that might be different, but I'm good at math, so it's pretty clear that if you shoot two guns, you are doing twice as much mag cleaning, reoloading, preparation, getting ready, etc...., which means everyone else is doing your share of the work.

Edited February 7, 2017 by motosapiens

[rowdyb]

Explicitly allow it or disallow it. Then it's not a judgement call. When you state up front what the policy is then there is no need to make case by case decisions. Only you can decide which one is worth the most for you and your crew and shooters.

[aandabooks]

The main club that I shoot at allows two guns but not at the same time.. We go through the 6 stages once and then resquad with the guys who want to shoot again.  Usually go from 80 to 30 and then we shoot the stages agsin.  I can elect to shoot a different gun then for $5 or stay with the same and shoot for free.  

 

We've had a couple guys ask about going two guns on the first time around but it is not fair to the other shooters on the squad and if everybody wanted to go two guns on the first then our 3 hour 6 stage match suddenly becomes a all day affair.  The guys who elect to go twice also become the cleanup crew.

[MemphisMechanic]

To allow a second division, you need to be able to go back for "second gun" as a group and shoot all of the stages again.

 

Otherwise as mentioned, changing gear on belt, loading 2 sets of mags, planning 2 walkthroughs with different reload points...

 

That guy is doing basically no helping to the squad and everyone else is doing his share while he swap over from Limited to Open and back, or whatever.

 

It unfair even if you have small enough squads that it isn't a time issue.

[zzt]

I'm the MD at one of my clubs for every non-bullseye event.  I have help setting up and tearing down, and help during the match.  I also RO most matches.  I've tried accommodating peoples wishes, but I've found that is just slows things down.  Now the rule is one gun per event, no exceptions.  Everything goes smoothly and quickly now.  For non-USPSA style matches.  For Hostage Pin, Outlaw Steel and 2x4 shoots were schedule two or three Events for the same day.  Want to shoot a different pistol, or the same pistol twice?  Sign up for the next Event.

 

Since everything goes more smoothly and quickly, I can run more shooters through an Event.  On multiple Event days, I can have more shots on target in the same amount of time.

[JWBaldree]

Your bigger problem is that you have 2 to 4 people responsible for the match success. Heck, you even said sometimes there are only 2 available to RO the entire match. I'm thinking that if you lose one of the core group to burnout your club is basically hosed. It's time to voice this issue at the next shooter's meeting. My guess is you will gain a few more volunteers. Next, keep doing set up the morning of the match, as no one is driving in from out of town the night before. And finally, only two people capable of R/Oing? Maybe no one else has been through the NROI RO class, but surely half or more of your shooters know the range commands and the basic match rules / DQable offenses. This should be another shooter's meeting bullet point: everyone should plan on ROing on the timer and/or scoring for half of a stage today. Plan on having some teachable moments for a match or two, but enough people will figure it out so every job is not your responsibility.

[MojitoCalido]

Thank you for all of the quick replies.  I love this forum. 

Here's more info as requested in some of the replies.

 

Most of our matches are indoor.  For that range, we have room to set up 2 stages at a time maximum.  There are no bays, so we generally have to run everyone in 1 squad on 1 stage at  a time.  Teardown, setup, repeat.  Very infrequently, we could have two short stages set up and we could split into two squads.  A shoots stage 1, B shoots stage 2, and then scoring is done simultaneously.  That is very rare.  So, I like the idea of running everyone through once, and then the doublers next, but that is not an option for us for our indoor matches.. 

 

Next, this is low population density area.  Out of 25 shooters, we might have 6 with a 20 min drive, everyone else is driving 1-3 hours, so its not realistic to expect them to arrive the day before or even 2 hours before our 10am start to help with setup. 

 

Finally, we certainly want to promote the sport.  But the entire burden of the match activities, pre, post and during, sits on just 4 of us, and often less since we all aren't always available.  So the thought of putting even more burden on us by reducing the help we get scoring, taping, etc is problematic.  Anyone who shoots only 1 division is picking up the duties that now can't be accomplished by those shooting 2 divisions.  Long term, that will result in the pack horses getting sick of carrying the additional weight and quitting, and that will kill the sport here.

 

 

 

[Maximis228]

We simply do not allow this at our club. We are limited on time and space due to running week night events at an indoor range.

[MikieM]

On ‎2‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:03 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

To allow a second division, you need to be able to go back for "second gun" as a group and shoot all of the stages again.

 

Otherwise as mentioned, changing gear on belt, loading 2 sets of mags, planning 2 walkthroughs with different reload points...

 

That guy is doing basically no helping to the squad and everyone else is doing his share while he swap over from Limited to Open and back, or whatever.

 

It unfair even if you have small enough squads that it isn't a time issue.

 

That's pretty much what happens at a smaller range I go to. They have 4 bays from which to shoot so they set up 4 stages. One of the stages, of course, is a classifier.

When all the squads have completed the courses of fire they take a short break and then those shooters who want to can re-enter with a different gun, and they repeat the stages.

It's a good opportunity for me to shoot Open, and Limited.