Stock 2 minimum upgrade question

[MacLethal]

That's why I posted what I did.. the Bolo caused it to happen in my setup, so i put the stock spring back in and did basically everything else to it.. now I'm sitting at a hair over 2.5 SA and 5 DA.. and it is smooth

[mfs]

On Friday, February 03, 2017 at 5:09 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

If you aren't planning to strip the gun down, then yes.

 

Drive the roll pin out of the trigger with a properly sized *roll pin* punch. Leave the punch through the frame so that the trigger and trigger spring stay aligned. (If you pull the punch out, the spring flies into the next county)

 

...And simply use a plastic mallet to gently tap the the CGW Canik into the gun - pushing the punch back out and leaving your new pin in the frame.

Thanks  !!

[johnbu]

5 hours ago, Sniperboy said:

 

There seems to be conflicting anecdotes but for my Stock 2 the xtreme 1 piece sear did not facilitate a need to refit the safety using the stock hammer.  If I recall correctly my stock firing pin block also remained functional.

 

The TITAN hammer has different geometry and causes the need to fit the sear to safety.

[LegionShooter]

Well, so far I've done the "minimum" upgrades people were talking about.  Gun runs great and trigger feels great as well.  I did load dev this weekend and shot another hundred rounds today after I put my new springs in it.  After polish and springs only I had 99% success rate out of 100 rounds.  One round required a double strike with no issues on the second go around.

 

Internal specs so far are the standard polish job, PD 14lb hammer spring, PD trigger return spring, PD sear spring, Wolff 10lb recoil spring, and the Wolff firing pin spring that came with the recoil spring.  All other internal parts are stock, except for the Canik trigger pin that was waiting on me when I got home from the range and is now in the gun.  

 

Load is 124gr Acme RN over 4.0gr N320 at 1.095 OAL.  Using WSP primers so not the softest, but not the hardest either.  

[MemphisMechanic]

If you're at 99% reliability with the 14... their new 15.5 might just give you a boringly Glock-like gun. It's out now:

 

https://patriotdefense.com/product/tanfoglio-optimized-hammer-spring-15-5lb/

[johnbu]

Use  the PD firing pin return spring NOT the wolff one. You are losing whack power to that spring.

The double strike success might also indicate primer depth variation.  Your reloads, factory reloads or new?

 

Think about more than just "flush", but 0.005- 0.008" below flush. Also, if using range picked brass, it can be former major 9mm and have loose primer pockets that allow motion and "steal whack force".

 

I also assume, you pass plunk with all rounds and/or have had the chamber corrected by Grams Engineering. Nearly all are out of spec short plus too tight.

 

[LegionShooter]

I'll check out the PD firing pin spring.  Reloads are my own, minted about an hour before I went to the range.  I'm using already prepped, mixed headstamp brass I bought from the brass classifieds here, so I assume it was all range pickup.  Most of it seems to be Winchester with some FC NT in there too.  All rounds plunk and I'm on a factory chamber.  I'll be sending it to Grams once his new tooling is in place (I'm on his wait list).

[johnbu]

Do you measure primer depth? You should.   the "penalty" for light triggers is the need for better than normal care ammo.  My thoughts about random light strikes is now more about the primers AND primer pockets.... less about the gun.  The brass primer pockets loosen with use and it's near impossible to tell when running a progressive. Any "major" brass is nearly certain to be loose.

 

If you don't already have it. The PD firing pin will add some extra oomph to the hits.  The gun will also loosen up with use and around 2-3000 rounds will start to hit harder and pull softer. (Reducing friction is a beautiful thing).  

 

A smart thing would be to have an extra hammer spring of the same weight and swap it in just for matches.  They do weaken with use and as the decline is gradual, you won't notice it until they are starting to affect reliability. And that is about guaranteed to be on the classifier stage of a match!

 

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, johnbu said:

The "penalty" for light triggers is the need for better than normal care ammo.

 

In Double-action guns. Specifically.

 

The Tanfo switch was frustrating at first because a trigger under three pounds in a 1911, M&P, or Glock that eats "flush or lower" CCIs all day long is easy to achieve.

 

A double-action gun is an entirely different animal, however. You have to do a lot more work with your trigger finger than you do on any other platform. You have to bring the hammer back a full inch against the hammer spring, and release it. 

 

Keep that huge difference in mind when comparing your new gun to the previous ones.

[PatriotDefense]

On 2/6/2017 at 8:03 PM, LegionShooter said:

Well, so far I've done the "minimum" upgrades people were talking about.  Gun runs great and trigger feels great as well.  I did load dev this weekend and shot another hundred rounds today after I put my new springs in it.  After polish and springs only I had 99% success rate out of 100 rounds.  One round required a double strike with no issues on the second go around.

 

Internal specs so far are the standard polish job, PD 14lb hammer spring, PD trigger return spring, PD sear spring, Wolff 10lb recoil spring, and the Wolff firing pin spring that came with the recoil spring.  All other internal parts are stock, except for the Canik trigger pin that was waiting on me when I got home from the range and is now in the gun.  

 

Load is 124gr Acme RN over 4.0gr N320 at 1.095 OAL.  Using WSP primers so not the softest, but not the hardest either.  

Just reiterating what Johnbu said about the firing pin spring setup your running. The one that comes with the Wolff recoil spring is extremely stiff and your loosing a lot of energy through that spring. 

[LegionShooter]

6 hours ago, PatriotDefense said:

Just reiterating what Johnbu said about the firing pin spring setup your running. The one that comes with the Wolff recoil spring is extremely stiff and your loosing a lot of energy through that spring. 

 

Tracking.  I intend to order one from y'all along with your firing pin once it's in stock.  In the meantime, am I better off with the Wolff fp spring or factory?

[MemphisMechanic]

If you didn't have an EGD firing pin spring (likely also missing coils) then most guys were cutting coils off of the Wolff one before the Patriot firing-pin spring came out.

[PatriotDefense]

56 minutes ago, LegionShooter said:

 

Tracking.  I intend to order one from y'all along with your firing pin once it's in stock.  In the meantime, am I better off with the Wolff fp spring or factory?

Best bet is to cut coils off either one in the meantime..... the down fall to this is some guns require so many coils to be cut that the firing pin becomes stuck in the breach face or in front of the FPB. It will amaze you how much harder of it hit you get with the lighter firing pin spring. 

 

I just got word that our next batch of firing pins have been shipped and headed back to us from heat treat. so be on the lookout by about Monday for them. 

[LegionShooter]

As soon as they're in stock I'm ordering.  In the meantime I cut about 1/4 inch (four coils) off the Wolff spring.  Seems to be alright, and no hang-ups.  I didn't go too far as I was 99 out of 100 with the spring the way it was.  I also took a slow-motion of the hammer drop that shows the FP extending pretty far through the breech.  I think it'll do until next week.  

[johnbu]

Fyi, I cut until only 6 coils remained past the tip of the firing pin.   that was using a wolff 13 hammer spring. I got good at unsticking the firing pin. But it was reliable. Just not as good as the PD

 

 

[LegionShooter]

Well I shot my first match with the new gun today.  I was all over the place on the first stage, with the errant rounds hitting high (and a few Mikes high, oops), but started to settle down as I got used to it.  Had one light-strike on the day.  Unfortunately that was on the Classifier, first DA pull, and it threw my cadence off so I blew that one.  But all in all a good day and I'm liking it a lot thus far.  

 

One step forward, two steps back though.  Got home to my refill of bullets waiting for me on the porch which was nice.  It seems, however, that ACME has re-profiled their 124gr RN since the last batch I bought.  Rounds passed the plunk and spin at 1.095 OAL previously, but now will not chamber even at 1.083 (which is what they're coming off the press at now, even though I've changed no settings on the dies).  So I guess I'm going with jacketed bullets in small batches until I can get my barrel reamed for the coated ones.

[johnbu]

Just load short until reamed. I ran 1.060 , 10's of thousands. They feed just fine.

[MemphisMechanic]

As an FYI, apparently the 135gr blue bullet (tapered cone) will allow you to load out around 1.125 -1.130 in a CZ or Tanfo which hasn't been reamed. That's an option for someone who wants to load longer without having the barrel cut.

[MacLethal]

I'm having to do the same with my 135 bayous. 1.080-1.085 to make them plunk and spin. I'm still getting light strikes which may be attributed to a weak sear spring. When I got the gun, the sear spring was up in the slot you use to remove the safety and it was fired that way I think. The hammer followed once yesterday and had a bunch of DA light strikes.

[johnbu]

Could also be too long. I had to run 1.060" oal with bayou 135 gr.  slight mfg tolerances with the bullet, brass, reload etc could cause it to fail plunk.

 

Each chamber is different, just pointing out a possible cause.

[MacLethal]

Could also be too long. I had to run 1.060" oal with bayou 135 gr.  slight mfg tolerances with the bullet, brass, reload etc could cause it to fail plunk.

 

 

 

Each chamber is different, just pointing out a possible cause.

 

I did recently chamber check every single round before my match to hopefully rule it out, but yes the chambers are all different.

[taxil343]

On 2/13/2017 at 0:25 PM, johnbu said:

Just load short until reamed. I ran 1.060 , 10's of thousands. They feed just fine.

+1. My barrel hasn't been reamed. I'm loading SNS 147gr FP and 125gr CN at 1.100". Don't be afraid to go short to pass plunk. 

[LegionShooter]

On 2/13/2017 at 0:25 PM, johnbu said:

Just load short until reamed. I ran 1.060 , 10's of thousands. They feed just fine.

 

I've got a couple hundred at 1.08 that I can probably set back a bit and see how it goes.  Not trying to push the pressure through the roof though.  Sitting at 4.0gr N320 now (about 130PF), so I should be good.