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2017 Limited, Production and L10 Nationals


CAB33

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What will be the likely format be?  4 days of 1/2 days shooting like the 2014 Nats?  

 

I usually don't worry about this since it's still months away but I gotta plan how many vacation days I need to save to attend. 

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To make it easier to staff it would make more sense to have two 3 day schedules. That way you could have RO's shoot one schedule and work the next or visa versa. I can't confirm or deny that this is the process that will be used. But it would make the most sense to me as an MD.

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17 hours ago, rowdyb said:

i wouldnt be surprised if this match had 800 people.....

 

Do you think? The 2014 All in One Nats at St. George didn't even make 600.  The 2015 & 2016 Limited Nats in FL didn't sell out or reach 300.  

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Area 1 has over 700 people, I know it has all the divisions but with the change in location and the change in number of Nats this year I bet it, Iron Sights Nats,  could get to 800.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
1 minute ago, Mikeski said:

If it's like Optic you will shoot either Thurs/Friday or Sat/Sun 10 stages each day.

 

or like the site says.....20 stages over 4 days......and have to work one of the half day.  LOL

 

The main schedule shoots in 8 shooting periods per day over 4 days in an AM/PM format.   You will shoot AM/PM/AM/PM or PM/AM/PM/AM.    We’ve designed this schedule to lessen the load on staff, to permit more activities for USPSA related business after shooting, and also to permit us to explore more elaborate stages without schedule risk.

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This is a re-post of a post Ken made on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/KennethCNelson/posts/10212172912705510

--------------------------

 

I've had some questions about our goals for the structure of the 2017 Iron Sights Nationals.

There has been a lot of positive feedback. And some negative. Which I expected. Some of the negative feedback makes assumptions on why we arrived at our plan that are incorrect, so I figured I'd share what those are.

Our goals are:

- provide a test that finds National champions in all divisions, categories and classes. A test that is hard enough to separate out the best, but also is doable and fun for regular shooters

- make practical shooting more social

- leave time and energy available so that Nationals can also have other organizational activities for the sport

- eliminate schedule stress

- demonstrate that you can run a great nationals, with less stress, and profitably. We phrase it as "want" to do a Nationals not "willing".

On our Club:

One thing to note is that this is our last Nationals or L3 match for the foreseeable future. As a club we've decided that it isn't for us. We tried it and delivered well regarded and well attended matches. But we are membership driven and our members do not want to do this anymore.

Personally, I'm ready to move on as well. I enjoy it, but I do not feel it fair or right that what I like to do cause so much stress to my friends, employees, and family as much as L3 match operations clearly do.

But... we want our last one to be really good.

A1 Schedule - Big, Thorny, Stressful:

Our experience with the schedule at A1 turned us away from that schedule, staffing approach, and also the stage mix.

It had much too long a day for the staff and for the shooters. It left nobody any energy at the end of the day. As the first person on the range, and among the last off, I was there for 14 to 16 hours.

It also required far too many staff (north of 100).

And while we love to shoot, that many rounds are not necessary to determine a champion.

Ironsights Plan:

- 8 shooting periods a day ensures a shorter staff day and time/energy left for shooters and staff at the end of the day

- in order to get to the test we think adequate for a Nationals that does make it a 4 day match

- the stage mix will also be tilted towards shooting challenge versus pure round count. There will be fun / gun, but also the schedule lets us explore stage complexity further than past schedules permit.

These 3 changes do lower staff costs and also revenue (significantly). Rather than 100 staff we can have 50. And that's important. Not because we are a smaller club in a small population region. We did successfully have about 100 staff for an L3 match just a month ago. And that was with far more staff applications than 100. So staffing up is doable. We chose this path, and a smaller match, for the first 3 reasons, not for staff cost. Doing so actually lets us better compensate staff, which we are doing.

Reset Plan - Social Social Social

Most comments (good and bad) revolve around the concept of having shooters NOT reset during their shooting period and instead reset during a single off period.

I recognize this is different, at least here in the US.

One thing I can say is that this has NOTHING to do with staff costs, which are independent of stage reset.

This is about reducing total work (48 resets versus 140) by organizing it.

And it's about enjoying shooting, thinking about shooting, talking with squad mates, and just sitting down and chilling if you like.

It's also about meeting shooters in other squads you never would have met. And if you are lucky it's about seeing the super squad shoot. It's about people.

It's a key part of our socializing goals for L3 practical shooting.

Give it a try, maybe you'll like it!

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I am yet to see Ken Nelson deploy something completely off base from what is actually needed in all of his major matches I have attended. He puts a tremendous amount of effort and planning into every single one of his matches. I think his changes to the schedule, staffing, and resetting will be an interesting concept to deploy and I for one am looking forward to experiencing it first hand.

 

As for him and his team bowing out of future Level 3 matches I am fine with that as well. They have been there, done that, and can show the battle scars from all of that thankless effort. Passing the torch is part of the process and he is serving us all well by letting us know well ahead of time that this is the final Nationals they are going to be hosting.

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11 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

I am yet to see Ken Nelson deploy something completely off base from what is actually needed in all of his major matches I have attended. He puts a tremendous amount of effort and planning into every single one of his matches. I think his changes to the schedule, staffing, and resetting will be an interesting concept to deploy and I for one am looking forward to experiencing it first hand.

 

As for him and his team bowing out of future Level 3 matches I am fine with that as well. They have been there, done that, and can show the battle scars from all of that thankless effort. Passing the torch is part of the process and he is serving us all well by letting us know well ahead of time that this is the final Nationals they are going to be hosting.

Great post, Charlie!

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I'm grateful to Ken and the team for this and previous matches, and the idea is interesting.   I also have some concerns...

 

Let's assume 500 shooters will be shooting the "main" 4-day match.   If so, 250 shooters will be not be shooting at any given time.   The one requisite half-day (at full attendance) will leave 25% of that 250 (62.5 people) on the range helping.  Spread across 20 stages, that will be 3.125 re-setters per stage...doing the work of 7-10 people.  I anticipate squads will either have to help, as normal, or incur delays.  If stages are "more elaborate" than normal, it could further exacerbate the re-setting issue. 

 

Per Ken: "This is about reducing total work (48 resets versus 140)"

If one re-setter is truly doing the work of 3, isn't it the same amount of taping?

 

As a competitor, if stages have more complexity as to require re-set time to be used for stage planning, the first few shooters are going to be at a serious disadvantage.  I also highly suspect that the vast majority of shooters will prefer to reset after they shoot for the day, not before.   Because of this, many shooters will be forced to shoot after re-setting the stages for other shooters for 4 hours in heat, hail (2014), etc.  I think that Rob Leatham and his two artificial knees will perform worse, if he spends the first half of his day crouching and re-setting steel.

 

This seems like an idea to try at an area match rather than Nationals?  Or am I missing something?

 

 

 

 

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