Carry Optics Mag Capacity Change

[d_striker]

28 minutes ago, zhunter said:

 

Have either of you up to this point shot CO?  You both seem to have opinions about it, just wondering?

 

IF you have not shot it in the past, do you intend to shoot CO in the future?

 

I setup one of my Shadow's with a dovetail mount.  

 

I was pretty burned out on 10 rounds, after shooting Production for 2 years solid, so I just shot it Open minor a few times.  I liked shooting a dot so much, I bought an Open gun.  Shooting minor in Open division isn't all that fun if you're trying to be competitive.  Plus, there weren't any good options for 170mm mags.

 

If CO rules had started out with no capacity restriction, I wouldn't have bought an Open gun.  Now that have one, I don't see myself shooting CO that often.  Maybe here and there.

Edited February 1, 2017 by d_striker

[zhunter]

26 minutes ago, mreed911 said:

 

I have.  Not enough to be classified yet, but yes.  I just started this month (only to see the rules change).  My new 140mm mags are on order - due tomorrow.

 

I've also shot RFPO in non-sanctioned steel challenge matches (no scores reported) and the RFPO comment above was, of course, a joke.

 

7 minutes ago, d_striker said:

 

I setup one of my Shadow's with a dovetail mount.  

 

I was pretty burned out on 10 rounds, after shooting Production for 2 years solid, so I just shot it Open minor a few times.  I liked shooting a dot so much, I bought an Open gun.  Shooting minor in Open division isn't all that fun if you're trying to be competitive.  Plus, there weren't any good options for 170mm mags.

 

If CO rules had started out with no capacity restriction, I wouldn't have bought an Open gun.  Now that have one, I don't see myself shooting CO that often.  Maybe here and there.

Cool, glad you guys have tried it out.  I get that equipment rule changes ahve made it difficult.  Obviously I have had to make some changes along the way.  Not sure I like the new capacity rule, but I will be buying mag extensions, just not sure if for my P-09 or Shadow.  I like the idea of 24 rounds rather than 21-23 rounds with the Shadow.  I think there is a huge advantage to 24 at times as it gets you through 3 arrays.

 

Off Topic:

Now if we could just get USPSA (generalization coming) to move away from 8-8-8-8 stage designs it would be a lot better and more interesting.  AND the 24th round would be less important 

 

Please, I do not want to hear any comments about get out there are start designing and building stages.

[d_striker]

14 minutes ago, zhunter said:

 

Cool, glad you guys have tried it out.  I get that equipment rule changes ahve made it difficult.  Obviously I have had to make some changes along the way.  Not sure I like the new capacity rule, but I will be buying mag extensions, just not sure if for my P-09 or Shadow.  I like the idea of 24 rounds rather than 21-23 rounds with the Shadow.  I think there is a huge advantage to 24 at times as it gets you through 3 arrays.

 

Off Topic:

Now if we could just get USPSA (generalization coming) to move away from 8-8-8-8 stage designs it would be a lot better and more interesting.  AND the 24th round would be less important 

 

Please, I do not want to hear any comments about get out there are start designing and building stages.

 

 

For me, 24 vs 22 rounds  wouldn't make a big difference in stage planning.  Maybe if all 24 rounds were close open targets with no ground to cover between arrays.  I'm not sure I've ever seen a stage like that.  I'd say 99% of the time, if you're trying to shoot 3 arrays of 8 with 23+1, you're doing something wrong.  

 

24 rounds with one make up shot  is a little risky when you're trying to push it.  Unless you shoot slow....But where is the fun in that?

Edited February 1, 2017 by d_striker

[zhunter]

I shoot slow

 

Kidding aside, with a dot it is pretty easy to shoot A's and C's.  I really think, could be wrong, that the option to go 24 with no slide lock is a potential advantage in a rare stage that can be an advantage in the match results.

[d_striker]

3 minutes ago, zhunter said:

I shoot slow

 

Kidding aside, with a dot it is pretty easy to shoot A's and C's.  I really think, could be wrong, that the option to go 24 with no slide lock is a potential advantage in a rare stage that can be an advantage in the match results.

 

It depends entirely on the stage design.  

 

It's easy to shoot A's and C's with irons also....Any C class shooter can shoot all A's if they take their time.  Unfortunately, your hit factor isn't going to be all that great.

 

 

[zhunter]

4 minutes ago, d_striker said:

 

It depends entirely on the stage design.  

 

It's easy to shoot A's and C's with irons also....Any C class shooter can shoot all A's if they take their time.  Unfortunately, your hit factor isn't going to be all that great.

 

 

As an A Class shooter, I am typically in the 5-6 HF range for field course stages at our locals and most majors.  And try to shoot a 4.5-5 to 1 ratio of A's to C's if that gives you an idea of my slow a$$ shooting  

 

Yep, I need to get faster, and I know where the low hanging fruit lies, it is just a matter of time to get it done

[PatJones]

Now if we could just get USPSA (generalization coming) to move away from 8-8-8-8 stage designs it would be a lot better and more interesting.  AND the 24th round would be less important 

 

Please, I do not want to hear any comments about get out there are start designing and building stages.

Well, if you're not seeing what you want at your local matches.....

[BritinUSA]

21 hours ago, d_striker said:

For me, 24 vs 22 rounds  wouldn't make a big difference in stage planning.  Maybe if all 24 rounds were close open targets with no ground to cover between arrays.  I'm not sure I've ever seen a stage like that.  I'd say 99% of the time, if you're trying to shoot 3 arrays of 8 with 23+1, you're doing something wrong.  

 

24 rounds with one make up shot  is a little risky when you're trying to push it.  Unless you shoot slow....But where is the fun in that?

 

Back when I shot Open, I would use 140mm mags with just 20 rounds in each. Even with 8-8-8-8 arrays there was always a good place to do a reload and the extra four rounds for every two sets of arrays gave me enough leeway. For me, a couple of twenty round magazines would be enough.

[zhunter]

1 hour ago, PatJones said:

 

Well, if you're not seeing what you want at your local matches.....

 

 

 

Been there and did that, way too many politics, I stopped and just starting paying my match fees

[MarkS_A18138]

non of the stages are 24 rounds at our weekly match...28 and 32 rounds. It was so nice reloading in the same spot all the Limited guys were reloading!

[Broncman]

As a newbie to this sport and my first club match coming next week, pretty excited about CO division. I shoot a XDM 5.25 with the factory 19 Rd mags.

After dropping all my spare change in belts, holsters, mag pouches and extra mags, this comes out.

 

140 extension's are as expensive as a new mag...

 

Would it be worth buying one, maybe two for the extra capacity and just plan the stages and use the 140 as needed?

 

Otherwise I will spend the money right now on other items I need.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

Technically, the most you'd need in a long field course is one extended mag: you'll either use it before the reload, or after it, depending on where in the stage you need to change mags.

 

The main benefit of 23-24 rounds is the ability to shoot a shorter 14-20 round stage (with a few makeup shots) without changing mags at all.

 

Theres absolutely no reason that mag extensions can't wait a few months until you have a few matches under your belt. Being a novice it isn't as if a single reload is going to suddenly catapult you into contention for the overall win.

[mreed911]

1 minute ago, MemphisMechanic said:

...the ability to shoot a shorter 14-20 round stage (with a few makeup shots)...

 

Theres absolutely no reason that mag extensions can't wait a few months until you have a few matches under your belt. Being a novice it isn't as if a single reload is going to suddenly catapult you into contention for the overall win.

 

Absolutely.  Dropping "a few makeup shots" will matter more than anything... that and fast transitions.

[James_007]

Cool, glad you guys have tried it out.  I get that equipment rule changes ahve made it difficult.  Obviously I have had to make some changes along the way.  Not sure I like the new capacity rule, but I will be buying mag extensions, just not sure if for my P-09 or Shadow.  I like the idea of 24 rounds rather than 21-23 rounds with the Shadow.  I think there is a huge advantage to 24 at times as it gets you through 3 arrays.

 

Off Topic:

Now if we could just get USPSA (generalization coming) to move away from 8-8-8-8 stage designs it would be a lot better and more interesting.  AND the 24th round would be less important 

 

Please, I do not want to hear any comments about get out there are start designing and building stages.

For what it's worth. I just checked the BOD minutes and found the newly revised appendix for CO on the USPSA site. The gun weight limit was discussed in the meeting but the increase in weight suggestion was not passed. The max weight including optic and empty mag is 45 oz. I believe your Shadow is 46 oz without optic and mag.

Please feel free to correct me, but that is how I was reading breakdown of the new rules. I guess the decision to go with the P09 was made for you in the rules.


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[rowdyb]

my shadow with a 140mm mag, ss guide rod, dovetail mount and rmr is only 43 oz. i seriously doubt his shadow is 46 oz.....

[JAFO]

The heaviest Shadow weight shown on the approved list is 42oz, nothing up to 46oz:

CZ75 Shadow Black4.60" barrel (39 oz.), CZ75 Shadow Duo Tone 9mm (39 oz.), CZ75 Shadow T Black4.60" Barrel (40 oz.), CZ75 Shadow T Duo Tone 4.60" (40 oz.), CZ75 SP-01 (41.2 oz.), CZ75 SP-01 Accu-Shadow 4.6 barre (42 oz.), CZ75 SP-01 Shadow 9mm 4.72" (42 oz.), CZ75 SP-01 Tactical (41 oz.), CZ75 SP01 Shadow Target Black4.6 (42 oz.), CZ75 SP01 Shadow Target Duo 4.60 (42 oz.),

Edited February 2, 2017 by JAFO

[James_007]

Reading too quick. The weights posted were assumed adding 4 oz for optic. It appears they were trying to get the weight limit increased to include more popular production guns. Here are the pages of the proposal.





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[zhunter]

5 hours ago, James_007 said:

 

For what it's worth. I just checked the BOD minutes and found the newly revised appendix for CO on the USPSA site. The gun weight limit was discussed in the meeting but the increase in weight suggestion was not passed. The max weight including optic and empty mag is 45 oz. I believe your Shadow is 46 oz without optic and mag.

Please feel free to correct me, but that is how I was reading breakdown of the new rules. I guess the decision to go with the P09 was made for you in the rules.


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I will just say, the scale at the chrono stage at 2016 CO Nationals had ZERO problem with either mine nor my wife's CZ Shadow SP-01's

 

Shadow's are good to go

[ParaLarry]

Just wondering why they didn't restrict the mags to "factory flush" to keep the division more interesting? It was originally called "carry" Optic.


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[Southpaw]

1 hour ago, ParaOrdnanceLarry said:

Just wondering why they didn't restrict the mags to "factory flush" to keep the division more interesting? It was originally called "carry" Optic.

How does that make it more interesting?  Seems like it would give a huge advantage to certain guns - 19 vs. 15 rounds.  140mm mags all hold around the same number of rounds.

 

And the next thing they need to change about Carry Optics is the name.  Are a lot of folks using a Glock 34 MOS in a DOH holster as their CCW? 

[alma]

1 hour ago, Southpaw said:

 

And the next thing they need to change about Carry Optics is the name.  Are a lot of folks using a Glock 34 MOS in a DOH holster as their CCW? 

Or approve AIWB 

[Schutzenmeister]

7 hours ago, Southpaw said:

And the next thing they need to change about Carry Optics is the name.  Are a lot of folks using a Glock 34 MOS in a DOH holster as their CCW? 

 

Why must one assume "Carry" = "CCW"?

[Southpaw]

6 hours ago, alma said:

Or approve AIWB 

Yes and then require a concealment garment too 

 

2 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

Why must one assume "Carry" = "CCW"?

Fair enough, so then are you seeing a lot of folks using a Glock 34 MOS in a DOH holster for open carry? 

[mreed911]

12 hours ago, ParaOrdnanceLarry said:

Just wondering why they didn't restrict the mags to "factory flush" to keep the division more interesting? It was originally called "carry" Optic.

 

Two words: competitive equity.

[mreed911]

9 hours ago, alma said:

Or approve AIWB 

 

I'd be okay with this if you could still be DQ'ed for pointing the gun at yourself anytime during the draw, including when first making contact with the gun in the holster.