Set up at local matches

[mlm]

Have a bit of an issue and would like some input from this large group. The club I belong to, puts on two matches a month. The day before the match, there are usually only 2-3 of the same people that will take the time to come out to the range and help set up the COF's. On match day we get there about 2-3 hours before the match starts and set the rest of it up. How do you get these shooters to be more involved with COF setup. We all know this is a volunteer sport and can not grow without help from like minded people. We do get some help in tear down, the shooters tear down the last stage, do not load on the trailer nor do they help put everything away. How do other clubs handle this. Do not post scores til everything is put away. Do not post scores of the shooters that do not help? I understand that folks work on Saturday and do not get to the range til 30 minutes before start time.

Like some input as to what other clubs do to get folks involved.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[rowdyb]

I've seen this handled sooo many ways.

 

-the set up crew takes their time if no one helps them. if they show up to the match a few hours early and not enough bodies are there to make it happen on time, well then the people who want to shoot but not help set up just have to wait.

-people who set up and tear down, doing real work, shoot the match for free.

-the club pays a small dedicated crew to do set up and tear down, charges more for the match to pay the folks. and those same people shoot for free.

-clubs get better and their range facilities and storage. be efficient in how stuff is handled on match day, have someone clearly in charge, have good stage diagrams that are meant for building the stage, not just a copy of the wsb. then builders have to do less thinking and adjusting.

-announce at the match for those attending the set up time and schedule for helping next match and ask nicely. announce in every shooters meeting the obligations expected of those in attendance. (some matches i've been to it's nothing but tape and set. others it is do it all and make it a 10 hour day)

-i've never seen punitive actions work like you proposed about not posting scores. the only one i've seen is cancelling a match due to no one helping. more people showed up the next time.

-start the match later in the day. i shoot some matches that start at 1pm. people show up and get it all built and done that morning.

-have a sense of scale. if 40 people come to your match i'd be surprised if more than 15 are helping.

 

understand people won't get involved unless they have an investment in it.

[Sandbagger123]

You will soon relalize that 99 percent of your shooters don't give a rats ass about helping set up and how much work it is. All they want to do is pay their money and shoot.   

 

Right now in my area we are in the winter lull.  Lots of people are asking why there is no match or  when's the next match.   It's like they are owed a match or something.  

 

If you ask and no one helps you need to come to the fact that you either want to do it or not the way it is now.    

 

If not just cancel the show and  hope some one else will step up to do it . 

 

 

 

 

[Nik Habicht]

I'd figure out a way to ask for help ahead of time -- one of my local clubs is really good about recruiting shooters to design/build stages.  Once recruited, they send the builders group (about 20 people) an email 7-10 days before the match, asking for stage designs/asking people to volunteer to build for certain pits.  Builders/designers hit Reply All to claim a pit, and email the match director a design.  

 

The MD finalizes/tweaks the WSBs and makes sure that the scorekeeper has the required info to create the match database in the scoring app.

 

MDs and builders meet at the range 2.5 hours or so before first shot, along with some helpers, there may be coffee and donuts, props are flowed out to the pits, and the builders buddy up to help each other set walls.  As you get closer to match time, more people flow in and help hang targets, drive spikes, etc.

 

Someone gives a new competitor briefing and safety check, someone else opens registration.... 

 

The match puts on six stages plus a classifier in that manner -- but the communication is the key.

[rowdyb]

Where things seem to get really tough, and not sure as the poster didn't mention, but numbers do seem to make a difference. A match seems to take 10 people to really set up and run. If your local match has 30 shooters or less you need 1/3 of them to really help, every match.  That is tough. But if you have 80 people show up every match then getting 10 to help is easier. Economy of scale.

 

Love up the people who do well. Encourage others to join. Make the process efficient and provide value. And remember you're not a martyr or a victim, try not to assume those roles and attitudes.

 

I wish you luck!

[d_striker]

Most of the clubs here in eastern CO are comprised of a Board.  There is typically a Board of Directors and a Club President.  The Prez usually also serves as the MD.  

 

Clubs around here have around 5-7 members on the BOD.  Each member is tasked with a certain responsibility such as score keeping, registration, new shooter safety briefing, etc.  5-6 BOD members will each create a stage and they are responsible for setting their stage up on match day with the help of volunteer shooters who receive a discount.  Volunteer turnout is usually pretty good when the weather is good.  Even when it's cold, there are usually at least 4-5 volunteers that come out early and help.

 

I don't believe any club's BOD's are compensated around here.  Our club is purely volunteer based but the incentive is the access to all of the props whenever one wants to use them, and of course a free match.  All clubs in our section also give BOD members from other clubs a reciprocal discount on match fees.

 

There is also the expectation that all of the shooters in the match are responsible for breaking down and putting props back in their storage location.  When a squad is done shooting their last stage, they break it down and put all of the props away.  If you have one of your BOD members directing everyone on where to put stuff during tear down, it mostly gets put back in the correct spot.

 

This section structure seems to work well as we have a match every weekend somewhere in the section; sometimes two.  There are a few indoor matches also.  Even though our clubs have dedicated BOD members, we couldn't have as many matches as we do without the help of shooters coming out early to help setup.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by d_striker

[Daft]

Reward the setup crew with a free or reduced price to shoot the match.

[CrashDodson]

I started a new club in December.  We have shot 3 matches now.  Our turnout has been 30-35 shooters so far.  We have a group of 3-4 that I can usually count on to help.  Currently Im stage designer, MD, score keeper, equipment director, sign in, orientation and RO.   I can see it getting old fast.  I plan most of the stages with some help from others when they have time.  Stage design is not that bad, its all the little things that add up when your doing all of it.  Our match is scheduled for one Sunday a month but we have had two Saturday matches because of various reasons.  The Sunday matches draw more help on Saturday afternoon then the Saturday matches draw help on Friday evening.  Some guys that can help cant shoot on Sundays and some cant on Saturdays.  I have one friend whos willing to help when he can but not available for all Sunday matches.  It sucks when you are the only one you can count on to be there lol.  I am starting to understand why there are not that many clubs, at least in our area, and not many people that want to be a MD.  

 

I hate setup in the morning because then I am even more stressed and by the time its hammer down I dont even want to shoot, and sure not going to shoot a decent match.  This last match ended up with me and a buddy finishing setup of the last two stages in the dark with truck headlights.  I like being able to have a local match for our area but, like you, need to find a way to get more people to help.  The discounts dont seem to help.  I bring coffee but haven't tried the food option too.  

 

Like Rowdy stated, "understand people won't get involved unless they have an investment in it", I believe this is key.  I am just not sure how to get people invested in it.  I thought about starting a monthly meeting to go over the previous match, plan for the next one and discuss things such as club purchases of new targets/steel/props, but its unlikely that many would show up.  I also started up the idea of a points league/points series but so far only getting interest from our core group of shooters.

[Prov1x]

Some of your clubs sound very difficult to set-up and run a match, mine is a little different as it's a public range. I'm the MD at my club, USSA in Tulsa, which is a public range, there isn't a BOD or panel etc. They let us run matches there and we have to pay the range 1/2 of our entry fees, I charge $20 per match. I design all the stages, sync nooks, practiscore, registration, sign-up/sign-in at the range, usually have 1 helper with sign in. There was another local range that tried the volunteer set up the morning of the match, it no longer has matches, so that doesn't work around here.

 

For set up on Saturday, the evening before the match, it used to be just myself and 1 other person. We would set 7-8 stages within a 3-3.5 time period, with just 2 people it was a lot of work! Luckily we got a few more people to start helping set up and now we have 4 total that help set up. It makes set up go by faster and has taken our stage build times down to about 2.5 hours. Those who help set up shoot for free of course. We have a trailer that carries just about everything we need to set up and tear down and that makes a huge difference. I appreciate those guys so much now I don't think I could go back to just 2 of us again, so 4 people can very easily set up a match.

 

Our match starts at 10 with sign in from 0915-10 on match day and I usually get to the range at about 715-730 to start hanging targets for the match. Help arrives around 745 and we are done with targets etc and any last minute adjustments by 0845 so it gives us a minute to rest and get up to the range lodge to start sign in. After sign in is complete we have a very short shooters meeting and assign squad moms who are in charge of their own squad during the match. We ask that people help tear down the stage they finish on and bring things to the front of the bays so we can come by and pick them up with the trailer. We usually have 4-5 others that will actually stay and help put stuff back on the trailer after the match and that makes tear down go a lot quicker! Scores are posted and everything is put up within 30-45 minutes of the match being over, not last shot fired, because some squads finish sooner than others. Myself and one other volunteer will shoot 1st on the last stage, whether or not we are supposed to go first or not, so we can go hook up the trailer, put our stuff up and get prepared to start tear down.

 

The big key to our match running smoothly is having a trailer to store things on and move from bay to bay. You really don't need that many people to help with a local match so don't try to over complicate it. You just have to be efficient at set up and don't make your stage designs too complicated that it takes you 45 minutes to set 1 stage. We have awesome stages though but don't try and trick people or make them too hard to shoot. As one of the posters above said, I never shoot to my best abilities at my match due to stress of set up/sign-in/stage design/targets/complications/questions/general match admin type stuff. You can never just relax and shoot like you do when you go to someone else's match.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Prov1x

[Chills1994]

15 hours ago, Sandbagger123 said:

You will soon relalize that 99 percent of your shooters don't give a rats ass about helping set up and how much work it is. All they want to do is pay their money and shoot.   

 

Right now in my area we are in the winter lull.  Lots of people are asking why there is no match or  when's the next match.   It's like they are owed a match or something.  

 

If you ask and no one helps you need to come to the fact that you either want to do it or not the way it is now.    

 

If not just cancel the show and  hope some one else will step up to do it . 

 

 

 

 

+1

 

That was my experience as well when I was an MD.

 

And I would knock off a good portion of the match fee if somebody helped set up the day or two before or if they showed up early on match day to just staple up targets.

 

That didn't seem like that much of an incentive, though.

[gerritm]

I shoot at a match every weekend somewhere in the Houston area. Several have elected club members that run the matches and set up. Several, depending on range fees and agreements with ranges have people from the range do the set ups and tear downs. Any that are clubs usually make an announcement at the shooter's meeting to tear down and bring to the front of the bay or the storage area at the end. We always have plenty of shooters that help at the end.

 

A couple set up on Friday and ask for volunteers to help. Problem is most of us work. Many of us are willing to show up early to help finish or set up the match as long as it is organized and stages are ready.

 

gerritm

[Trent1k1]

Our club in Florida has Tuesday and Friday night matches (4 stages) that start at 630pm as well as a 4th Sunday match that starts at 9:30am.

 

We only build stages a couple of hours before the match as we have more than enough help. 

 

Part of it may be the culture at our club.  We have a New Shooter class where we go over the rules and stress repeatedly that ALL shooters are expected to help setup and tear down stages.  From the first day they try USPSA, it is ingrained in them.  We also have the concept of "Red Hat" Range Officers.  These are individuals that pull range officer duty on the clubs public line and go above and beyond with their volunteerism.  These specific people have 24 hour access to our Action Bays and props for practice,  Our club has about 20 of these people and with 50% of them showing up for every match we already have dedicated people to design and build stages.

 

As we are finishing stages, and shooters show up and try to walk the stage, we kick them out or make them go get additional fault lines, targets, staplers, etc.  If they have time to stand around, they have time to help. 

 

We also don't have a problem with turnout.  In fact, many times we have 13-14 people on a squad.  If the same people don't paste, or setup, or even help put targets up, guess who doesn't get to shoot the match?

 

While we weren't always this organized, one of the things we did do was design and print out the stage designs and put them in the bay.  It allows us to have people just standing around to at least go get the props to the bay.

 

I love the idea of just delaying the start of the match if shooters are not helping and just standing around.  If they have time to watch you and your small setup crew work their butts off, they have time to wait for the match to begin.  Drag it out an hour or two later one month and watch those same shooters start to show up late next time.  However, next time, start earlier or on time and don't let them shoot.

 

Many people want others to do the work, you just need to figure out what motivates them to get them to work for you. (like double the match fees if they don't help)

 

 

 

 

 

[Mikeski]

1 hour ago, Trent1k1 said:

Our club in Florida has Tuesday and Friday night matches (4 stages) that start at 630pm as well as a 4th Sunday match that starts at 9:30am.

 

We only build stages a couple of hours before the match as we have more than enough help. 

 

Part of it may be the culture at our club.  We have a New Shooter class where we go over the rules and stress repeatedly that ALL shooters are expected to help setup and tear down stages.  From the first day they try USPSA, it is ingrained in them.  We also have the concept of "Red Hat" Range Officers.  These are individuals that pull range officer duty on the clubs public line and go above and beyond with their volunteerism.  These specific people have 24 hour access to our Action Bays and props for practice,  Our club has about 20 of these people and with 50% of them showing up for every match we already have dedicated people to design and build stages.

 

As we are finishing stages, and shooters show up and try to walk the stage, we kick them out or make them go get additional fault lines, targets, staplers, etc.  If they have time to stand around, they have time to help. 

 

We also don't have a problem with turnout.  In fact, many times we have 13-14 people on a squad.  If the same people don't paste, or setup, or even help put targets up, guess who doesn't get to shoot the match?

 

While we weren't always this organized, one of the things we did do was design and print out the stage designs and put them in the bay.  It allows us to have people just standing around to at least go get the props to the bay.

 

I love the idea of just delaying the start of the match if shooters are not helping and just standing around.  If they have time to watch you and your small setup crew work their butts off, they have time to wait for the match to begin.  Drag it out an hour or two later one month and watch those same shooters start to show up late next time.  However, next time, start earlier or on time and don't let them shoot.

 

Many people want others to do the work, you just need to figure out what motivates them to get them to work for you. (like double the match fees if they don't help)

 

 

 

 

 

I was one who started at this club in the Intro class. I have never wanted to be known and one of those people who just shows up and shoots. I actually enjoy setting up the stages. Now I have been to a couple of other clubs in the area and think that this is just part of the culture of this club. I think having the Intro class is a big help and the fact that most of the action pistol events seem to max out is a good indicator that the Directors must be doing something right.

[CrashDodson]

I have had the trailer idea for a while, just no trailer.  We have a shooter who has agreed to donate a trailer to us so Im excited to get that going as I think that will be a big step to making setup more efficient.  

 

Our range is self policed.  There is no open firing line or line managed by range officers.  Our range is a members only range, though anyone can shoot our matches.  The equipment/props/walls etc are purchased with money from the matches but belong to the range.  The range does not allow the use of the props outside of competition, no steel is allowed in any bay except for during competition.  So I cant use that as any sort of incentive (help and you get access to the gear for practice).  All three groups USPSA/3 gun/IDPA share the same equipment.   

 

I print out build sheets for each stage with equipment lists and stage drawings with sight lines and descriptions.  If I could get 6-8 helpers that would be there every time it would make a world of difference.  I will just keep pushing the volunteer thing at every match and on our facebook/emails.  

[mreed911]

Raise your price.  Seriously.  Raise your price.

 

Double the cost of the match and offer 1/2 off for showing up at the gate an hour early to help set up.  Either folks help set up or subsidize those that do.

 

One club here locally does something similar: "Gate opens from 8:00 - 8:05 for setup crew who get a discount.  Gate reopens at 9:00 for general entrance, match starts at 10:00."

 

I'm one of those guys who typically doesn't show up really early for setup but when I'm early I'll help finish whatever setup is needed.  I'm always around for teardown, though.  Enough financial incentive and I'd be earlier.

Edited January 27, 2017 by mreed911

[CrashDodson]

What type of match fee do they have?  We already charge $20 and those that help shoot for $5.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by CrashDodson

[mreed911]

1 minute ago, CrashDodson said:

What type of match fee do they have?  We already charge $20 and those that help shoot for $5.  

 

Something similar.  I've never been to one of their matches (the one I tried to go to got rained out) but I see the announcements all the time.  It's Alpha-Mike shooters in Bulverde, TX.  Might reach out to them to see how successful it's been.

[mlm]

All the guys who help set up are either given a discount to shoot for $5.00 if they help set up the day before and help on match day. The M/D shoots for free and the others who help on Sunday pay $10.00, so we are rewarding the folks who help. Our match fee is $20.00 for members and $25.00 for non. If the shooter is coming from out of town 50 or more miles do not ask them to set up but do ask everyone to at least tear stage down when the match is over. In South Texas too hot to try to start a match at 12-1 in the summer. We try to start at 9:00 in the summer which is 7-8 months out of the year. So we are trying to get more people involved, but yes some of you had said that some do not give a rats ass to set up, just want to shoot and go home. Have shot else where in Texas, Alpha Mike being one of them, also RCSC in San Antonio. Have not ever held back scores on folks that are local do not help. just asking for input on how we can get more partition. We also have two or three trailers with props on them so we move from bay to bay to set up stages. Sometimes 4-6 stages depending on what it is USPSA< 2-Gun or 3-Gun.

Thanks for all the input

Mike

[CrashDodson]

Our guys seem to be un-motivated about the 15 dollar discount.  Im afraid if we tried to charge more we would push away some.

[MemphisMechanic]

Something else, too:

 

How often do you set up medium and short courses?

 

An interesting 12 round stage with two walls and one or two movers is more challenging to win than a 32 round "sprint and hose" which features a dozen walls.

 

The kicker is that it's also far faster to set up.

 

Take a look at the Med / Short courses at www.speedslide.com - the IPSC flavored stages often require much less hardware to be lugged onto and off of the range.

 

(Routinely feature some low ports and strong hand/weak hand in there routinely along with offers to allow others to design and setup a different type of course if they don't like these. The older Open guys who want to run and hose will be much more likely to set up...  )

 

This isn't as easy as it looks. But it's fast to put together, and depending where they start, it has multiple ways to shoot it and win:

Edited January 27, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[mlm]

My matches run short, medium, and long. I like to shoot SS in USPSA so I will set them up so I have a challenge. Not a hosier fest. Your point is well taken and we try to spread it out. In our 2 Gun, will have rifle pistol transition or visa versa. So yes we the guys putting these matches on are trying all kinds of things. I guess it comes down to how motivated a shooter is to help and to learn how to put on a good or great match.

IMVHO

Mike    

[Prov1x]

53 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

Our guys seem to be un-motivated about the 15 dollar discount.  Im afraid if we tried to charge more we would push away some.

This ^ would happen. I raised our price from $15 to $20 and people almost had a heart attack. Now almost every other match in the state charges $20, so I guess we set a trend! Anymore than that and everyone would expect to not have to help out at all. I know I wouldn't pay $30+ for a local match and have to help set up too, no thanks. 

 

MemphisMechanic has a point on stage design. Like I said in my previous post, we set up 8 stages majority of the time, 5 meduim courses plus a classifier (6) and 2 32 round count stages in 5 bays. OR I'll do 4 medium including classifier and 3 long courses for 7 total stages. Our round count is always between 165-170 per match. A good stage doesn't have to be 32 rounds, it can be small with some tough shots, tight shots or a hoser stage with some quick movement and just a couple of walls. Do visit the link above!!!!

 

[sundevil827]

It's an interesting question.....

 

In IL, before I moved, we'd shoot a Wednesday night match, with 32-36 shooters, and an hour before the match, you'd still have 15-18 people involved in set-up. It made life easier, but I also attribute that to sense of community.

 

Today, locally? They are discussing all sorts of ideas to get people involved, or invested in the club. What I would call "community building" ideas. The reality is that different things motivate some folks, and not others, free match for working for 2 hours? Some folks have the time and love that, to other folks the $20 is not that big a deal. One of the ideas now is possibly having members design stages for matches, which could go either way, it could dilute the quality of stages, making the match not worth it, or it could help. 

 

Sounds dumb, but are you asking people in advance to help? Is that something the club officers address via e-mail, sign-up, welcoming speech for the match? Can you assign one person to "lead" on each bay at set-up, put them in charge, and then they can pull people in to help as they show up at the range? 

[JAFO]

Mike,

 

I'm sorry you're having this problem.  When BPSC was operating, we had official members and could setup Friday night for Saturday matches, but we still struggled through the exact thing you are describing.  Always the same folks out there for setup, and people burned out.  Props were all stored in one area and they had to be trucked around to all the bays, which made it very inefficient.  Not to mention setting up at 6pm on a Friday evening in August just sucked.  Members shot for free if they set up, but that wasn't always enough incentive.  The next punitive step was denial of the range privileges (free practice time) that club members.  That helped some, but really it came down to hounding people to get them out there on a Friday evening.

 

Alpha Mike doesn't really have an official club membership.  And since they have to setup everything the morning of the match, they must rely on the shooters to volunteer for setup.  A lot of those people are regulars who help all the time, but they have had to cancel matches due to lack of participation.  If people don't help, they can't shoot.

 

River City is blessed with a relatively large number of members who come out and help regularly.  I think I can count on one hand the number of times we've set up with less than 5 or 6 people in the last 4-5 years.  We have work credits and match help (setup/registration/RO/etc) listed as conditions of membership.  For USPSA, setup can count for a free match or as a work credit.  We set up in the morning the day before the match, so we beat most of the heat through the warm months.  Props are stored in multiple locations for convenience, and we have carts to move the heavy stuff.  Setup reminders are sent out the week of the match, and members respond if they cannot make it so we know whether we will be short-handed.  Our biggest problem times are when matches overlap popular Level II/Area matches, when a good portion of the membership is gone.  Then we might design stages that are lighter on props, or maybe run a Classifier match.

[rowdyb]

See I started shooting in so-cal and 35-40 is a normal week in and week out uspsa match fee. Shooting here in the south for 10-20 seems incredibly cheap.

Right now I get no discount for helping set up, just an atta-boy. I have plenty of dough but would still appreciate a break for helping.

 

To the original poster, keep at it! Keep asking and keep leading by example. And keep trying to get more people to show up! The more people you get to show up the more chance you have of finding someone who is a good volunteer/helper.