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Re-seating finished bullets..?


IGOTGLOCKED

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Prior to learning of the "Plunk & Spin" I was just using a case gauge and have "few" finished (9mm plated) rounds on the shelves. I now intend to put them through p&s test. Should some not pass is it safe to re-seat those that are too long? If so will the sides of the projectiles become scored/scraped due to the re-seating process? If I recall correctly they were crimped at about .379. If so I guess I can just use them for practice..?

Thanks in advance from IGG!

Edited by IGOTGLOCKED
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31 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

Prior to learning of the "Plunk & Spin" I was just using a case gauge and have "few" finished (9mm plated) rounds on the shelves. I now intend to put them through p&s test. Should some not pass is it safe to re-seat those that are too long? If so will the sides of the projectiles become scored/scraped due to the re-seating process? If I recall correctly they were crimped at about .379. If so I guess I can just use them for practice..?

Thanks in advance from IGG!

It is likely to cause shearing of the base of the bullet and to make it less accurate, but by how much, I don't know.

Is this plinking/practice ammo or match ammo?

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21 minutes ago, NicVerAZ said:

It is likely to cause shearing of the base of the bullet and to make it less accurate, but by how much, I don't know.

Is this plinking/practice ammo or match ammo?

If I do this with the possibility of scraping the plating I will only use them for practice...

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6 minutes ago, bwikel said:

They may or may not scrape off the bullet plating. The best way to tell is to seat a few to the shorter OAL and then pull the bullet to see what it looks like.

That indeed makes sense, thx!

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7 minutes ago, jcc7x7 said:

Shoot them for practice.

Mark them and shoot a group with your good ammo and load these so you fire them last and see if they "FLY"

any how shoot them in practice

This might take me a few evenings to do this as I have more than a hand full! :roflol:

I will do the 'ole p&s after work and see if this is even an issue. If not, "fire in the hole" & down range they go!

Thanks & Cheers!

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 A few years ago I loaded up some 45 rds with Precision bullets built to what was the reported COAL spec for their new 230 gr bullet.  I didn't chamber drop to check OAL because I had loaded thousands of the older bullet and I was following the new spec. Wrong.  Too long.  Just re-seated them a few .001's.  No problem with leading or lead scraping unto the case mouth.  YMMV so check anything you do before you do a lot of them. Alternatively, and this occurred to me with my 45, buy another gun that will chamber your screw ups.  Always looking for another good reason to buy another gun.

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1 hour ago, lgh said:

 A few years ago I loaded up some 45 rds with Precision bullets built to what was the reported COAL spec for their new 230 gr bullet.  I didn't chamber drop to check OAL because I had loaded thousands of the older bullet and I was following the new spec. Wrong.  Too long.  Just re-seated them a few .001's.  No problem with leading or lead scraping unto the case mouth.  YMMV so check anything you do before you do a lot of them. Alternatively, and this occurred to me with my 45, buy another gun that will chamber your screw ups.  Always looking for another good reason to buy another gun.

Understood, and yes there is ALWAYS a good reason for another...

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4 hours ago, 57K said:

 

If they were jacketed, I'd say fine so long as you don't have your primer apparatus installed and you taper crimp after shortening. For polycoated and cast, if you have applied any real taper crimp I would shoot them as is. If the case-mouth has been reduced enough in diameter, the inside of the case-mouth is likely to scrape and shave. Not good for either, but you're kinda defeating the purpose with polycoated.

Not sure what you were referring to regarding the primer apparatus as I would only run them back through the seating and crimp dies...

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3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

^^^^   That's what I'd do    ^^^^^^

I'm really not comfortable shooting any that are up against the lands & grooves. There aren't that many so far (only 4 out of 1400) and unless it would be unsafe to reseat and fire them I'll make sure they are boxed separate and just send them down range.

Cheers!

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6 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

Well, buddy, you probably mentioned it, but since I'm an old codger, I can't remember what press you have, but if the priming tool is an arm type of some kind, you don't want anything capable of making contact with the primer while you re-seat. If the bullets are cast or polycoated and you applied crimp, personally, I wouldn't shorten them.

 

Now, I'm looking at your next post, and if the loads keep the rounds from allowing the slide to return to 100% battery, shorten them unles you want to pull bullets and start over. What you DON'T want to do is fire loads near the top end of the data while the slide has not returned to 100% battery.

It's a 650 and we are on the same page, thx!

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It will be fine.  Back when shooting was more of an experiment for me, I would find projectiles in the dirt at my gun club.  Some in very good condition.  I would take them home, weigh them, reload them, and test them out.  Function 100%, accuracy as good as I could tell at the time.  I might do it again now that I am really good at shooting, and check the accuracy potential.

 

Reseating them won't make a shred of difference.

 

You also don't need to worry about reseating with a primer in the case.  That happens every time you make a cartridge.

 

If your crimp is minimal, or nonexistent, you can run the cartridge right back through the seating die with no problem to shorten OAL.  You don't really need crimp if you are using a good sizing die. The case becomes hour-glass shaped during the reloading process.  Setback becomes nigh-impossible.  Granted, this only applies to pistol cartridges.

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10 hours ago, Dr Mitch said:

It will be fine.  Back when shooting was more of an experiment for me, I would find projectiles in the dirt at my gun club.  Some in very good condition.  I would take them home, weigh them, reload them, and test them out.  Function 100%, accuracy as good as I could tell at the time.  I might do it again now that I am really good at shooting, and check the accuracy potential.

 

Reseating them won't make a shred of difference.

 

You also don't need to worry about reseating with a primer in the case.  That happens every time you make a cartridge.

 

If your crimp is minimal, or nonexistent, you can run the cartridge right back through the seating die with no problem to shorten OAL.  You don't really need crimp if you are using a good sizing die. The case becomes hour-glass shaped during the reloading process.  Setback becomes nigh-impossible.  Granted, this only applies to pistol cartridges.

Hey thanks! I only had four out of the first 1400 I checked and I could actually spin them with a little more effort. I guess i was expecting this to be more of an issue than it is. 

The ones in question were 147 x-tremes w/.160 oal, had to go to .150 with acme to pass p&s which is what caused me to question my loads with the e-xtremes...

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2 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

Have you ever really tried reseating a cast or polycoated bullet to a shorter OACL that had a light taper crimp. I ask because when the internal edge of the case-mouth has been reduced to a smaller diameter than bullet caliber, maybe you could explain how it could not shave the bullet.

 

 

 

 

Let me see if I understand. You're saying that every cartridge that's loaded, the primer gets seated and reseated? More news to me. But I will say this to anyone who does not load on a progressive machine that you might want to ignore that statement. There are different amounts of pressure applied for different operations. Putting enough pressure to  seat a bullet deeper with the primer arm in the ram and the cup under the primer could be hazardous to your health.

Proper taper crimp only removes the bell. It shouldn't be digging into a bullet too much. It's tricky seating a coated or lead bullet a little deeper but I do it on occasion with minimal to no damage to the coating.

 

FWIW I fully understand what Mitch is saying about reseating a bullet being no different than seating it originally. I would think the <5% who actually load bulk ammo on a non progressive would know how to safely do it.

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7 hours ago, 57K said:

Let me see if I understand. You're saying that every cartridge that's loaded, the primer gets seated and reseated? More news to me.

 

I don't want to speak to what the intent of that statement was since I didn't make it, but you're misreading what it actually says.  It says the bullet gets reseated every time, not the primer.

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My view on this for future reference:

 

Shorten one. Pull bullet. If it hasn't been damaged by stuffing it a bit further into the case, do the rest. Use them as practice ammo.

 

This goes for lead, cast, FMJ, and coated.

 

If it gouges them up due to your crimp, either pull them or see if they'll run in your gun as practice ammo the way they are.

 

<Now let's freak out the safety nazi's:>

 

You won't set a primer off in a 650 by running it back through the press. Even if you lean on the handle. I've done a few dozen reps of the ultimate "no no" and driven high primers all the way into fully loaded ammo at station 2. I wear eyes and ears, and keep my hands out of the machine...

 

But you won't set one off that way.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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On 1/28/2017 at 1:54 PM, MemphisMechanic said:

My view on this for future reference:

 

Shorten one. Pull bullet. If it hasn't been damaged by stuffing it a bit further into the case, do the rest. Use them as practice ammo.

 

This goes for lead, cast, FMJ, and coated.

 

If it gouges them up due to your crimp, either pull them or see if they'll run in your gun as practice ammo the way they are.

 

<Now let's freak out the safety nazi's:>

 

You won't set a primer off in a 650 by running it back through the press. Even if you lean on the handle. I've done a few dozen reps of the ultimate "no no" and driven high primers all the way into fully loaded ammo at station 2. I wear eyes and ears, and keep my hands out of the machine...

 

But you won't set one off that way.

Thanks Memphis, I re-seated 200 today and I will shoot for practice. It's not like I ran them through the priming die!

 

On 1/28/2017 at 6:14 PM, 57K said:

 

I mostly agree in terms of loading on a 650 or probably most other progressives. But that wasn't specified. For the newer folks seeing such a statement saying go ahead, no worries, they might not have thought about the differences where with a non-progressive, the primer arm and cup should be situated so they do not come into contact with the primer if you are re-seating.

 

I've, unfortunately, had to do this once or twice. Pulling a bullet or 2 or 3 is never a bad idea, but even with a light taper crimp, the bullet jacket is hard enough that you won't scrape off jacket mat'l. I won;t speak to plated because I just haven't used very many. But if you have applied a small amount of taper crimp on a cast or plated bullet, particularly if you originally set the crimp for jacketed bullets, or even if you set crimp according to case-wall thickness doubled with the bullet diameter added. You've still reduced the inside of the case-mouth to smaller diameter than the bullet. The difference being that with the TC die set for jacketed, it's definitely gonna scrape lead bullets that are .001" or more greater in diameter than a JHP or FMJ. The difference being that If you've set crimp by dimensions and do not taper crimp, the ID of the case-mouth should be very close to bullet diameter. Any crimp applied will be accordingly smaller by the amount of taper crimp.

 

It is still worthy of pulling a few bullets to be sure, particularly for guys just starting out.

 

Even still, the dynamic is different when you originally seat a bullet vs reseating a bullet whose bullet is already is at a pretty good depth and sitting on top of a powder charge with a primer in place.

 

Personally, I set TC for jacketed bullets and remove the TC die from the turret when I load lead. The bullet being overdiameter in the first place is going to add at least another .001"of case-neck tension. But, sometimes a TC is used to aid feed reliability where it's desirable to some to turn the case-neck ever so slightly into the bullet to prevent the case-mouth from having a relatively square edge. Maybe more of an issue for pistols with short feedramps as in the case of 1911s with unramped barrels, but it's still the individual's call.

 

Even guys shooting bullseye with a revolver with wadcutters will apply a very light amount of taper crimp.

 

 

IGG, I forgot to mention that I'm glad you got that cat skinned and that plunk and spin revealed only 4 that were long enough that they need to be pulled, or shot grom your bud's Glock. On the + side for X-Tremes, they use thicker plating than some others and claim that they're a bit harder as well.

Actually X-Treme offers single and double plating. The double plating is designated as the concave base which is what I use - grate bullet! Just became too expensive and is why I switched to coated...

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14 hours ago, 57K said:

 

I completely understand! Many are not aware of this, and I mention it because of the number of defense loads I make, the SPEER Gold Dot bullets are about as good as it gets. I don't worry much about it, and I hope the day never comes that I have to use a handgun to protect my beloved, because at that point I will go to a zone like Michael Jordan used to talk about. As far as defending myself, well, if I can't do that with a 19 round pistol, then God didn't love me so much after-all!!! LOL! Technically, since before the Gold Dpt was introduced, their bullets are Plated like the Gold Dots most of you are familiar with.

 

What I'm talking about here is that well before the Gold Dot, SPEER used a process that the referred to as "Hot-Core." so with all the more recent hype about bonded this or bonded that and how much a JHP penetrates gelatin after passing through barriers, SPEER started out referring to the Gold Dot as bonded. It is probably today the best defensive bullet available to handloaders.

 

You're not gonna walk into to your local gunshop and come out with a box of 100 HSTs or Ranger SXTs which really are just a further development of the mainsrream media's favorite bullet to pick on from years ago: the Black Talon. The guy that designed the BT also designed the Hyra-Shok, the Golden Saber and what PMC, IIRC, called Starfire. And I've been watching all of this for many years. How in the hell anyone would pay the xtra price for a Winchester Silvertip, post the "Miami Shootout" in 1986 is beyond anything I'm gonna use valuable brain cells pondering!

 

Sorry, for those who know me and really do appreciate these elongated posts also know that I can sidetrack, hopefully, I get the intent of the question dealt with.

 

What we're talking about with plated, is something they use for marketing: "dpouble-struck" and moderators forgive me if I say, who gives a F***!

 

I never bought FMJ when a JHP was available at a very similar price.People like Hornaday get that and why they eliminated the skives from the nose of XTPs to bring out HAP. The aerodynamic turbulence caused by the bullet's cavity actually helps it stabilize in flight. Before someone who is getting their ego bruised from my BS at this point, all you need do is look at Premium rifle bullets where you start calculating price per bullet, vs price per box. You'll find 2 commonalities. 1: they have a boat-tail & 2: they have a hollow cavity. Since I ain't gonna pay for something that doesn't exist, plated bullets are pretty much useless, AND, the better news is that technology is catching up. So, you know where I stand on bullet selection. If I need a JHP, I need a JHP, For anything else, what can be done that a good cast bullet won't do??? One of these days, if I stay on this forum that long, I'll try to do some threads on subjects like these. But even before JHPs became the accepted standard for defense bullets, an FMJ will not do anything that can't be done with a cast bullet. Problem has always been how to get it right without hiring a chimney sweep to come and scrape the lead out of a barrel.

 

Maybe I'm just lucky because I was born on St. Patrick's day, but I've have had no issues loading cast bullets including magnum revolver loads.

 

So, here's the thing. I ain't gonna try to teach geometry here. Whether one type of rifling is better than another, other mortals can argue because I don't give a S*** and economics are involved! What is fixed in my mind is that I'm pretty sure that we can all now walk the "yellow-brick" road with polycoated so long as you don't push them beyond their capability in terms of velocity which seems to be around 1400 - 1600 FPS depending on whose process we're talking about. For those who are more interested in this subject, just let me know because all of this started a long time ago when S&W was still making ammo and introduced the "Nyclad" bullets that after they ceased manufacturing was sold to Federal.

 

Geez, there are some guys here that would really like to rip me at this point for post length. So long as the comments aren't too literal, or literate, can take it with a dose of salys. Otherwise, If I were gonna bitch about post length it wouldn't be a comparison to pulp fiction: I'd probably mention "War and Peace!!!"

 

I'll stay here so long as I can teach. One of the most admirable qualities of the late, great, Navy SEAL, Chris Kyle! Damn right he was a Texan!!!

 

 

Thanks 57, I'm here to learn and appreciate your thoughts! I have to admit though sometimes I have to save them for when there is enough time to read them through and digest them...

And my daughter was born in Texas!

 

Cheers!

 

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