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Open Gun Troubleshooting help wanted


Sarge

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I would really like to do this by PM. I have posted the problem before but didn't really get very far.

im hoping a seasoned smith, tinkerer, shooter etc can shed some light on my issue which is:

One gun runs perfect. Any length ammo. Every mag I own. No hiccups at all.

Other gun seems to nosedive once or twice per mag. Any length ammo. Every mag I own.

All mags are adjusted to present rounds perfectly. New springs. Polished tubes.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks!

Edited by Sarge
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2 hours ago, Sarge said:

Yes. It's even been worked on by him and others.

There just has to be something small I'm missing.

If the "other" gun is new and has been doing this all along, I'm curious why the builder isn't taking responsibility for it?  Why should you have to be the one to figure out what "small" thing is going on?

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16 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: Start with extractor tension. Thanks, Eric

Yes. Good advice. I'm currently having this problem myself.

My STI 140mm mags were a bit spotty, performance wise, so I fully loaded them and let them sit for a week in a dark closet. I don't know if it was the dark closet, or what, but they all ran great last weekend. Springs have memories.

Edited by MikieM
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15 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: Start with extractor tension. Thanks, Eric

Round never gets close to the breech face. Is just barely caught by the bottom edge of the slide.

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8 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Round never gets close to the breech face. Is just barely caught by the bottom edge of the slide.

Try the mag catch from the gun that works in the gun that don't...

(and you may need a little tweak of feed ramp geometry)

Edited by ChuckS
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8 minutes ago, 412 said:

Is the nose of the bullet very low on the ramp?

To add to this, my CK 9 major feeds the bullet nose about 70% of the way toward the top of the ramp and slightly left of center.  Using both MBX mags and STI mags with spacers.  Stock CK polymer grip and mag catch.   Very reliable, so far, in 3000 rds of jacketed and BBI.  

I have a .40 Limited gun that had feed problems.  Clark Custom adjusted the feed ramp, which helped (also breech face redone due to pitting from SPM primers, which was catching the case rim as it was coming up the breech face).

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23 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Try the mag catch from the gun that works in the gun that don't...

(and you may need a little tweak of feed ramp geometry)

Or, change the grip in the gun that doesn't work. If you are willing, take the entire grip assembly from the working gun and put it on the non-working gun. This is assuming you have an S_I type gun. 

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20 minutes ago, HI5-O said:

Or, change the grip in the gun that doesn't work. If you are willing, take the entire grip assembly from the working gun and put it on the non-working gun. This is assuming you have an S_I type gun. 

Already has a new grip on it and still no change. Originally had a steel grip on it and I thought it was too heavy. Put a new STI on it and it didn't change at all.

I appreciate all the ideas. At some point maybe we'll get a hit. :)

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53 minutes ago, 412 said:

Is the nose of the bullet very low on the ramp?

When ramp gets dirty I can see rounds are hitting ramp just below the chamber. Just one or two per mag will nose directly into the bottom edge of the ramp and be wedged hard in the mag. I can pull mag out and round stays stuck until I pop it out

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Sent you a PM

56 minutes ago, Sarge said:

When ramp gets dirty I can see rounds are hitting ramp just below the chamber. Just one or two per mag will nose directly into the bottom edge of the ramp and be wedged hard in the mag. I can pull mag out and round stays stuck until I pop it out

Is your ammo to long and dragging in the mag.  This may have already been addressed. i.e. using same mags in both guns

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I think redoing the ramp will solve the problem. If you can look at the schuemann aet ramp and try to reshape the ramp. I did this to a different barrel years ago and it made the gun run all the time. The one thing the aet barrel ramp does is changes the ramp angle and support of the case but after 30,000 rounds it has not hurt anything.

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This is probably not the case with your issues, but thought I would throw it out there as it is very common. A lot of jams with a 1911/2011 happen when there is contact with the slide. This happens riding the thumb on the safety, or having the non-dominant hand sitting high and making contact with the slide. As guns are made differently with different safeties and scope mounts, this may not have been an issue with a previous gun, but may be for your new one as we tend to shoot all guns the same. 

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Ramp may be longer at the bottom and protrude into the magazine well more than the barrel ramp in the other gun that works. Take both barrels out and compare. Barrel comes backward when the gun is fired and this would put the longer ramp into the rounds of the loaded magazine pushing them down at the nose causing the nosedives. May only need about .010" to .015" off of it to correct if this is indeed the problem.

Edited by MrPostman
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Sent you a PM

Is your ammo to long and dragging in the mag.  This may have already been addressed. i.e. using same mags in both guns


This would also be my first question. Now you can isolate if it's a mag or gun issue. If the mag feed lips are not tuned or have burs it can cause a nose dive. To light/worn out of a mag spring can hang up a follower and cause this problem as well.


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9 minutes ago, BallisticianX said:


This would also be my first question. Now you can isolate if it's a mag or gun issue. If the mag feed lips are not tuned or have burs it can cause a nose dive. To light/worn out of a mag spring can hang up a follower and cause this problem as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

See post #1. :) 

i have 10 mags tuned , adjusted, new springs, polished that work perfect with any length ammo in my other gun and other shooters guns.

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Sarge, do you by chance have a picture of the  nose dive? 

It is either a feed ramp issue or a breech face issue. Could the underside of the slide be dragging the round forward some upon chambering the round above, and the round that nose dives is sitting up against the feed ramp when the slide tries to strip it?

Also, can you take a pic or two of the underside of your slide and the breech face?

 

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I'd take both top ends off, insert loaded mags and look at how the malfunctioning gun lines up with the top rounds.  Then I'd check with the barrels installed to see where they both are lined up to. 

 

Id also check how the barrel unlocks on the frames and compare them.

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