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Any solve the titanium cylinder/ brass sticking issue?


pcschwenke

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I have a 986 and struggle finding loads which release from the cylinder easily.  One thing I know for certain, is that .358 diameter bullets stick badly.  Smaller diameter bullets are better, but not perfect.  Is the solution to use undersized dies or use 0.356 bullets.  Maybe that's my next step before trying anything else.  I hoped to use the same diameter lead as I use in my 38 super, but that looks like it's not going to happen...  After running the brass through the sizer it does fit into the cylinders.  

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First don't really clean the cylinder insides, just run a bore snake threw it, then check an cull your brass, any that have what some call the glock bulge get rid of. what works for me in my 986, and my 929 is I use  Lee U die to size Lyman M to flare ,I seat with on step and I crimp in a separate step, for crimp I have used the FCD and I also use a Lee 38 short colt roll crimp die, this is what I've been using the last year and it works well for me usinf .358 sized PC'd 147 good accuracy and no sticking brass, 131 to 143 PF 4.1 to 4.3 gr. BE-86. YMMV

 

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Maybe it is a problem with case bulge...  I haven't loaded much 9mm.  I have only loaded 38 super, 38 special/357, and 45acp in pistols.  I have reloaded and shot more rounds than I want to admit!  It may be that the revolver cylinder is too short for 147 truncated bullets or at least how I have them set out.  My crimp is set at 0.378".  Anyone have loads with WST powder in the 986 or 929 they are willing to share?  Thank you for the ideas!  

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Truncated cone bullets? Round nose loads easier in revolvers.

Are you using WST? Try a slower powder. Heavy bullets combined with fast powders operate at higher pressures and expand the brass more. We don't have the extraction power of an autoloader, and they only extract one at a time.


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Federal brass has been working well for me, some guys are using Winchester and it's working fine. I haven't tried Remington. 

 

Honestly a lot of my problems were solved by bumping my oal out a little, and using the super die.  

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How long is your overall length?..... There are those who have found that their revo 9mm loads needs to be slightly OAL longer as the INTERNAL dimensions of the 9mm case gets smaller internally as you push the bullet into the case. Powder is also a consideration, I couldn't get reliable extraction with Clay's and a 160 lead Bayou's when I first started with the 9mm 929.... MOST of my early problems were of my own making (Read my early posts). I've always used the Lee "U" die in the 1st. stage and I shoot LOT'S of 9mm in different guns/rifles. Dillon case lube is good stuff on all my brass no matter the calibre.

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 Brass sticking in my 929 has never been an issue...maybe just Lucky.  I shoot 9mm mixed brass and  Winchester 38 special cases trimmed to Short Colt length both with a variety of different powders...bullet weight and diameters and OAL...looking for that magic load....and have found a few.   After 2500 plus rounds extraction has never been a problem.  I do clean my brass before reloading and the 929 gets cleaned also.  I use old formula Hoppe's #9 (because I have about a gallon of it) to clean the barrel and cylinder and only lightly lubricate the ejector rod and crane.  My 929 has been a real pleasure to load for and shoot.  The only problem I've had is with the guy pulling the trigger.

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In every revolver I've owned extraction effort is directly related to pressure.  There's really no getting around that.  In the 929 I've tested 150 gr bullets with titegroup from 126 to 133 PF with an o.a.l of 1.120-1.130 and extraction was still pretty easy.  Bullet diameter and o.a.l play a bigger role in 9mm than larger cases.  If you need a larger size projectile push you o.a.l out further to keep pressure in check.

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I think the pressure may be the culprit.  My 147gr loads are seated to 1.095" and with WST it may be too fast of a powder.  When I get a chance I will purchase TG and try the bullets out further.  I was hoping to find a load which would work in my 986 & XDm 5.25.  Neither seem to be nail drivers with the loads anyway.  I do have WSF and SuperLight (yes I know they haven't made it for a while), but the closest place to buy power is 50 miles away...   Thanks!

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I got pretty lucky with my current load, they're coming off the press with 2.7(CZ) or 2.9(929) grains of TG at 1.130 o.a.l and run well in both.  If it were me I'd find the max o.a.l that passes the plunk test in your XDm and see if that will work in the revolver.  My friends XD 5.25 does not run well with that o.a.l using the same bullet, it hits the rifling a bit prematurely and will occasionally fail to go into battery without a manual nudge on the slide.  Not sure if that's common among all XDs but none of the other autos I've tried had any issues, just something to consider.

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On 1/27/2017 at 8:55 AM, MWP said:

Federal brass has been working well for me, some guys are using Winchester and it's working fine. I haven't tried Remington. 

 

Honestly a lot of my problems were solved by bumping my oal out a little, and using the super die.  

 

I switched to remington from federal at end of 2015, it works excellent.

 

i have tested federal, rem, speer, winchester and all work fine in my experience.

 

What does not work is starline, amerc, etc..

 

 

Edited by seanc
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  • 3 weeks later...

I finally got out to try a few loads this weekend.  Sticking the bullets out to 1.170 really helped the brass sticking and accuracy.   WST and WSF both worked equally well.  Thanks everyone.  I may stick with 3.2gr of WST and 124RN for now.   The 160gr RN really intrigue me.  I use 200RN in my 38 special and they are crazy accurate and feed awesome!  

 

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  • 1 month later...

As it was mentioned ; Powder choice and COL are the factors. With a titanium cylinder sticking is exacerbated with the less dense grain structure of the material. With that said expansion as related to pressure becomes a bigger concern. I found that faster powders with their higher chamber pressures creates a greater probability for sticky extraction. Seating depth directly correlates to how the pressure builds with any powder. Heavier bullets increase chamber pressures also (greater mass requires greater energy to initiate movement). Crimp also contributes to pressure as it adds or reduces resistance to initiate movement.  So, in my opinion, the best practice with Ti cylinders is powders from the slower end of the cartridge compatibility, light crimp (just enough to remove the case bell and lightly indent the bullet), and the COL should increases as you try heavier bullets available to the cartridge. This will tame the extraction best. But one thing to keep in mind; over time and use the Ti will become more rough and induce sticking potential. Ti has horrible wear/abrasion resistance and is prone to surface wear. So that polished chamber in Ti wont last near as long as a ordnance grade steels. For example after I had 4k through my polished 929 Ti cylinder it was sticking like a bastard whereas it hadn't before with my load of slow powder and mid-weight bullet with a Long COL. Im now back to a 627 with stainless cylinder that doesnt stick with whatever I blast through it.....Just an FYI....   

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/20/2017 at 3:25 PM, pcschwenke said:

I finally got out to try a few loads this weekend.  Sticking the bullets out to 1.170 really helped the brass sticking and accuracy.   WST and WSF both worked equally well.  Thanks everyone.  I may stick with 3.2gr of WST and 124RN for now.   The 160gr RN really intrigue me.  I use 200RN in my 38 special and they are crazy accurate and feed awesome!  

 

 

 

Did you every try the 160's?

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On 3/27/2017 at 10:29 AM, BallisticianX said:

As it was mentioned ; Powder choice and COL are the factors. With a titanium cylinder sticking is exacerbated with the less dense grain structure of the material. 

 

 

I have shot over 30K of 9x19 loaded with Zero 147s and Extreme 165s and Titegroup.  Most all of it is surplus WCC brass.  Not a low pressure load by any means.

 

Not sticky at all.  Accurate and reliable.

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