Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

650 Question


Recommended Posts

So I just started loading with my 650. I have loaded 300 rounds and I am noticing powder on the shell plate and floor. It seems to bounce out when it moves stations. I have seen upgrades for the Ball Bearing, and the shell plate cam follower. Do any of these help, or is it just the price of doing business?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mikeski said:

So I just started loading with my 650. I have loaded 300 rounds and I am noticing powder on the shell plate and floor. It seems to bounce out when it moves stations. I have seen upgrades for the Ball Bearing, and the shell plate cam follower. Do any of these help, or is it just the price of doing business?

I used this set when I had a 650:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-XL-650-Premium-Performance-Improvments-Kit-/321399781658

It really helped smooth the operation out and the shellplate didn't "pop" into place as sharply as it did with the stock parts.

Edited by TennJeep1618
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Try adjusting your cam pin (13371). You'll notice if it isn't  adjusted quite right, when a case is inserted too soon, it will accelerate the shell plate causing an acceleration and a abrupt stop spilling powder.  

 

If if this is adjusted correctly there is no need to buy bearings. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The shell plate ball bearing completely fixed the issue for me. I tried the plastic ball first and it was worse. I went back to the Dillon ball. IMHO the bearing on the rod that controls the insertion slide is not useful. I have not tried one so I guess I should shut, but there is no evidence that I have seen that the rod induces any sharp motion.

Repeat...the shell plate bearing totally eliminated the issue for me.

Edited by Brooke
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Brooke said:

The shell plate ball bearing completely fixed the issue for me. I tried the plastic ball first and it was worse. I went back to the Dillon ball. IMHO the bearing on the rod that controls the insertion slide is not useful. I have not tried one so I guess I should shut, but there is no evidence that I have seen that the rod induces any sharp motion.

Repeat...the shell plate bearing totally eliminated the issue for me.

Same here. I put the bearing kit in with only one washer which helps keep the ejector wire in place with minimal tweaking. Amen to being able to tighten the plate down tighter. I run mine pretty snug to where it actually takes some effort to spin it by hand. The only powder I get on the plate these days is from the funnel because I can run the press so fast! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Brooke said:

The shell plate ball bearing completely fixed the issue for me.

5 hours ago, Henny said:

Try adjusting your cam pin (13371). You'll notice if it isn't  adjusted quite right, when a case is inserted too soon, it will accelerate the shell plate causing an acceleration and a abrupt stop spilling powder.  

If if this is adjusted correctly there is no need to buy bearings. 

The shell plate bearings are a big help toward ultimate smoothness......(not absolutely necessary but at a cost of just a few bucks, you will be glad you made the addition) ....... BUT as Henny said, make sure your adjustment of the cam pin is where it needs to be.  THAT adjustment is where I completely stopped the powder-spill-jerking-thing.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Henny said:

If if this is adjusted correctly there is no need to buy bearings. 

Mine is pretty much dead on and has no effect on shell plate snap. The bearing is the first thing to change as it really takes the snap

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Henny said:

Try adjusting your cam pin (13371). You'll notice if it isn't  adjusted quite right, when a case is inserted too soon, it will accelerate the shell plate causing an acceleration and a abrupt stop spilling powder.  

 

If if this is adjusted correctly there is no need to buy bearings. 

What's your approach to adjusting the cam pin?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/24/2017 at 7:36 PM, muncie21 said:

What's your approach to adjusting the cam pin?

When adjusting the cam pin I move the pin then slowly have the machine insert a case into the shell plate. If the case is fully inserted prior to the shell plate coming to a stop, you can see how this accelerates the shell plate, then suddenly makes it stop. Continue to adjust the pin until the full insertation of the case coincides with the exact moment the shell plate stops it's rotation  

 

When you sit there and mess with it, you'll see what I mean. Adjust it to  extremes it becomes evident how important this often overlooked adjustment is  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Henny said:

When adjusting the cam pin I move the pin then slowly have the machine insert a case into the shell plate. If the case is fully inserted prior to the shell plate coming to a stop, you can see how this accelerates the shell plate, then suddenly makes it stop. Continue to adjust the pin until the full insertation of the case coincides with the exact moment the shell plate stops it's rotation  

 

When you sit there and mess with it, you'll see what I mean. Adjust it to  extremes it becomes evident how important this often overlooked adjustment is  

 

 

Exactly.... and the roller bearing has no effect on this need to adjust timing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/24/2017 at 3:12 PM, amada8 said:

 

I tried the bearing. It wasn't for me. 

It was only a few years ago that I found out about adjusting the cam pin. It's kind of embarrassing, since I've been loading on a 650 since the early 90s! My first 650 doesn't have a hole in the crank for grease, let alone zerks!  To grease the link arm pins, I have to remove them!

 

i know I'm never too old to learn!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Brooke said:

Exactly.... and the roller bearing has no effect on this need to adjust timing.

 

On 1/24/2017 at 0:59 PM, Sarge said:

Mine is pretty much dead on and has no effect on shell plate snap. The bearing is the first thing to change as it really takes the snap

Sarge..... you say that your camming pin is dead on so it has nothing to do with shell plate snap.  If you still have the snap after you have set the pin properly....then yes, one needs to find out why the plate still snaps and spills powder. 

I think what I (and others including Brooke) are saying is: for a 650XL user, if you are experiencing a shell plate snap, the FIRST place to look would be the timing of the insertion of the spent case into Station 1....... and this is controlled by the camming pin.

I learned this lesson a few months ago when the camming pin nut came loose (with a bearing installed).  You can test this yourself by loosening the camming pin nut and turn the cam pin several spins.  Run a few cycles. The bearing will not stop the shell plate snap.  Alternately, you can set the camming pin perfectly and remove the bearing....... the 650XL will run with very minimal (if any) shell plate snap.  The bearing does an incredible job of removing this last bit of snap while allowing the shell plate to glide very smoothly.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:48 AM, RichJacot said:

The bearing and detent ball stopped my powder spill. 

When loading for Major I still get a wee bit sloshed out, but I did the same as Rich, and it's worth it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if your 650 is not indexing as smooth as this one (mine), then you need to do some work on the setup:

 

The feeding of cases as dictated by the case insert caming pin is important. note how the case inserts to station one just as the shell plate stops.

 

The index tab/pawl on the left of the press that interfaces with the plastic indexer ring also needs to be set properly.

 

The final 2 pieces of the puzzle are the spring and detent ball and shell plate tension.

 

I like the lighter delrin ball and cut approx 1/2 a coil off the spring. this removes any jolt as the ball goes into it's socket in the shell plate.

 

For tension I found it easier to set properly with the bearing installed. it's still very much a knife edge setting but without the bearing it's very easy to go from too loose to too tight. you want it set so that it's not excessively dragging but that it's got no slop or play at all. I run just the bearing with one washer on top (saves messing with the ejector spring).

 

oh, I also painted an index mark on the bolt head (right at 9 o'clock) so that I can monitor if the bolt moves at all. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...