Garmil Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I've loaded super before with no issues. Setting up my dies on a new press today. having issues with neck tension/bullet setback. I can not find a happy medium between preventing setback and not denting the bullet. I'm able to push the bullet in the case up until I crimp enough to leave a heavy line where the mouth hits a jacketed bullet. i searched and saw people crimp anywhere from .378 to .382 have tried this whole range with no luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Your old dies from your previous reloader or a new set of dies? New or used brass? Did you confirm bullet diameter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Same dies. tried used and new starline brass same result precision delta .3555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, yoshidaex said: Your old dies from your previous reloader or a new set of dies? New or used brass? Did you confirm bullet diameter? the only time I can push a bullet in a case by hand is when the case is fired and nor resized yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Just now, Garmil said: Same dies. tried used and new starline brass same result precision delta .3555 Did you size the new brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 Interesting even with what looks like a decent amount of crimp added I can still push the bullet in. Yes I did resize the new brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Sizing/decapping die contacting the shell plate? Edited January 21, 2017 by yoshidaex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 How much flare is applied when dropping powder? i had a bullet setback issue similar to yours when I flared too much during the powder drop step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 I have the sizing die just a hair above the shell plate. for flare I'm using an m die at about .382 this is the minimum that will grab a bullet from my hornady bullet feeder (they recommend .385) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Try setting the sizing/decapper die to "kiss" the shell plate. You want just a bit of that "cam over" feeling but not much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 43 minutes ago, Garmil said: I have the sizing die just a hair above the shell plate. for flare I'm using an m die at about .382 this is the minimum that will grab a bullet from my hornady bullet feeder (they recommend .385) Doesn't the mdie also expand down inside. That sounds like a lot of flare to me. With MBF funnel I can barely notice the mouth expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Sarge said: Doesn't the mdie also expand down inside. That sounds like a lot of flare to me. With MBF funnel I can barely notice the mouth expansion. "Works in a two step process, the first step expands the inside of the case neck to just under bullet diameter. The second step expands the case mouth to bullet diameter or slightly over so that the bullet can be started perfectly centered." Using the m die make sure the expander inside didn't come loose. Ive had more break loose and work its way down the threads more than once, using loctite Edited January 21, 2017 by Kraj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 The sized brass is about .378. if I go any less flare the case won't pick up a bullet from the feeder as is its borderline. i do have a Lee powder through die I can try or the ptx insert for my hornady powder measure to see if a different type of flare helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 Well I think it's a sizing die issue. I switched in a 9mm sizing die left everything else the same and I have perfect results, good neck tension without over crimping. in theory this should work fine for new brass. But after firing I should use the super die to take care of any bulge at the bottom a 9mm die would miss right? I ordered a new super U die that will hopefully have the same result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamboo Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) " I ordered a new super U die that will hopefully have the same result." I think you will be happy with the results from using the U-die with your super brass. Been using it for years and have been nothing but happy with the results. You don't want setback with 38 super especially in major.. I also use a FCD, not so much for the sizing ring but because I like the way it crimps and how easy it is to dial in the right amount of crimp. Edited January 22, 2017 by Bamboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 I do have a fcd but haven't been using it due to lack of stages. I may put it back in the rotation it's just a pain to fine tune the flare in the hornady powder measure. I agree on the crimp adjustment with the fcd since it's independent unlike the seat/crimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallisticianX Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Your problem is the expander die. Have experienced this myself in the past. Two expander stem designs are out there. One that only flares the case mouth and the other flares the mouth as well as expanding the case walls. I do not like the whole case wall expander style. Case wall thickness variations between brands and even lots make it impossible to have any single dimension work across the board to expand that case wall. Stretching those case walls open takes tension away from the bullet. You need that tension to work in conjunction with the crimp, not relying on crimp alone. I load all my Auto loader ammo with just a light flare to the mouth. I go as far to machine my own expander stems to eliminate any case wall stretch. The only other concern you may be experiencing is a batch of soft brass that has no spring back. That will exacerbate the expander issue I just explained. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Thanks for the input. Makes sense. I just haven't had a problem with the m die style before on this or other straight wall calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Garmil, I use the Hornady PTX in two calibers and they work great. The expansion is such that when the bullet is inserted by a properly set up bullet feeding die, it cannot be removed by hand. It also makes it simple to dial in the exact flare you need. I use Hornady's specified diameters and have no problems. I also use an FCD for crimping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 16 minutes ago, zzt said: Garmil, I use the Hornady PTX in two calibers and they work great. The expansion is such that when the bullet is inserted by a properly set up bullet feeding die, it cannot be removed by hand. It also makes it simple to dial in the exact flare you need. I use Hornady's specified diameters and have no problems. I also use an FCD for crimping. Thanks I should do it that way so I free up a spot for the fcd. I just hate adjusting the amount of flare with the ptx but sounds worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Set the top screw so you can see two or three threads and lock it down. Then use the bottom screw to adjust the amount of flare you get. The hard part, for me, was getting the powder die set to the right height so the PTX worked the way it was supposed to. If I ever reload a caliber that requires a different height setting, I'll just buy another powder measure so I don't have to adjust when switching calibers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar15rick Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I had the same issue when I used a lee 38 super resizing die. I had to go with the U die that fixed everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dons Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I had the same problem with PD .355 bullets in my Super. I thought I would try some PD bullets. Had the same issues you describe. Switched back to Zero .356 bullets, problem stopped. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Well I don't feel quite so bad now it seems pretty common. checked the plug on my m die tonight and it's .3535 - .3545 so a little on the big side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garmil Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 Ended up going to a U die and using the ptx expander and it's working perfect now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now