louu Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 We are starting 3 gun at my club. I'm not really sure of what to do for divisions. I don't want to turn anyone away but I also don't know if having a hundred different divisions will be a bad thing. We are definitely going to have Tac ops Heavy Open Limited And irons. A few things I'm not sure about is if we can combine limited and irons. Then if we should have some sort of PCC division too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamspartacus Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Limited and irons should be one division. I haven't seen a club with a division for just iron sighted rifles in a long time. Most everyone has 1x dots and irons in the same division now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) I agree that irons and red dots should shoot together in Limited. Do not succumb to the pressure of having two Heavy divisions (e.g. HM Limited and HM Scope). To quote Kelly Neal, "Heavy Metal should be one small division, not two tiny ones". Edited January 21, 2017 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 What we do at the club that I help at is, Tac Optics Tac Irons / Limited (non magnified) Open Heavy Metal Combined The few that shoot Heavy use scopes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Once again, PCC is left out in the cold. The local 3GN club includes PCC and another nearby club indicated they are considering it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Flatland Shooter said: Once again, PCC is left out in the cold. The local 3GN club includes PCC and another nearby club indicated they are considering it. Competitors can use a PCC in Limited, Tactical or Open Divisions in our 3-gun matches. Why do you need a PCC specific division? Edited January 21, 2017 by Rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Steel at 300+ yards is one reason. The local 3GN club I believe sets a spare set of steel out to a max 100 yards for the PCC group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I've started up Var is variable or fixed mag optics 1x red dots and iron guys heavy 308. Anything optic open. Run what you brung. everyone pretty much runs 1x and tactical so the 308 guys don't really bitch much but they do have to pump gun and 45 it. Open is mostly mag fed shotgun guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said: Once again, PCC is left out in the cold. As it should. A PCC is a possible replacement for a pistol, not a rifle. 3 gun and 2 gun are not pistol sports; shooting at distance are expected parts of the game. Since it's impractical to carry a PCC and a RCC, 2 gun and 3 gun should rightfully ignore PCC and expect everyone to use a conventional pistol. Putting rifle targets closer and substituting PCC for rifle is not practical, because, as stated before, a PCC is a pistol replacement at best, not a rifle. Just because it's long and looks like a rifle doesn't mean it is a rifle. It's just a pistol with a long barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 You want to shoot pcc I don't care but you aren't getting handicap steel in my matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I am not aware of a ruleset that specifically excludes use of a PCC for a "rifle" in 3-gun. It's an option available to the competitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Rookie said: I am not aware of a ruleset that specifically excludes use of a PCC for a "rifle" in 3-gun. It's an option available to the competitor. Might be hard to make those distance shots though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I can see the attraction of the 3GN approach of allowing PCC as an alternative to pistol, and it might even make for some interesting choices on certain stages. However, the vast majority of the time in a "real" 3-gun match a PCC would be the gun of choice (over a pistol), meaning that now everyone would have to bring FOUR guns to each match. For most 3-gunners, that would be a painful development, both in terms of cost and crap to be hauled to the match (putting those that fly at a significant competitive disadvantage). Maybe allow PCC instead of pistol in Open Division, where the difference in capability is smallest? Some matches allow PCC as an extra option in Trooper Division. I'm not sure I am a fan of this idea, but I guess I am open to persuasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 12 hours ago, tanks said: Might be hard to make those distance shots though. Every weapon platform has limitations. If 25% of the shots in a match are over 150 yards... then a PCC may not be the reasonable choice for "rifle". I select Heavy Metal division for many matches and a 308 Win and pump shotgun is not optimal for short range hoser matches, but it is the choice I make. My main point is/was that PCC is legal for the "Rifle" component of many 3-Gun matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Heck, I recall hitting steel out to 300 yards and beyond with my H&K 94.......Oh wait, that was my H&K 91....or was it my H&K 93? Anyway that was back when any of them cost $289 retail. You see, we've had this "PCC" path for many years, most have just followed the path home.... Feather AT-9, IMI UZI carbine, H&K 94, Colt 9mm, Marlin Camp 9 & Camp 45, Fox Carbine......anyone recognize these names???? ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Leave PCC in USPSA where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, TonytheTiger said: Leave PCC in USPSA where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 Lots of good info in this thread thanks guys. We will combine limited and iron and no PCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 I used to shoot a carbine match that would allow PCC in their minor optics or minor iron divisions. It was mostly bay shooting with a couple of long range stages. It was scored time plus, PCC had to shoot each target 3x to neutralize (normal carbine was 1 A/B or 2 anywhere). While you could shoot your PCC, not too many did. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 15 hours ago, louu said: Lots of good info in this thread thanks guys. We will combine limited and iron and no PCC. I would suggest you adopt one of the well-established rules sets - the rules and requirements will be familiar to more of your customers, and you will not have to deal with holes in the rules that can lead to conflict with range lawyers. Consider USPSA or IMA rules, both of which are comprehensive and spell out the division requirements very clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 We were thinking about using the FN rule set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytonWelch Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) We do 3GN division rules, but we don't have all of their divisions: Factory - shoot irons if you want Practical Unlimited Heavy Optics - shoot irons if you want PCC - shoot irons if you want This covers everybody in only 5 divisions and unless you are shooting with irons you are at no disadvantage in your division. If you are shooting irons and don't like getting beat by a guy shooting a red dot, go buy a red dot. Edited February 16, 2017 by ClaytonWelch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 We don't allow Heavy metal as we have only 100 yard max and it beats up our steel. Otherwise werun... Tac-Optic Tac-Iron Open PCC_Optic PCC-Iron We have in the past, prior to PCC run a pump SG division, but the requests for that fell off. We reserve the right to place you in the next best division but rarely do. Not really fair if one guy shoots PCC-Optic and the rest shoot Iron if he smokes them. Keep in mind, it is a Club Match. Poll your members and see what they really want, then adjust after they show up and actually shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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