KampKustoms Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I'm wanting to break into the open gun fun. Matches I shoot and want it for: 3-Gun, outlaw steel matches, and USPSA so ability to make major is a MUST. I have been mostly looking at pistols with optics that mount to the slide and are ported or can easily be ported. I'm not looking to win the division, I just want to have fun with optics and not reload as often as carry optics. Guns I think might work, in descending order: S&W M&P 9L ported with C.O.R.E. mounting system CZ Custom P-09 with optics cut and Mag-Na-Port Glock 34 (eww, but lots of availability) Walther Q5 Match Other suggestions? Total budget ~$1500 I have smaller hands and don't want a 2011 style pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 NOT a glock fan myself but own an MOS 34 for carry optics and it works fine for the job. So with that in mind a 17 or 34 mos, and somebodies comped bbl. Mount optic of choice and spring it to run your loads. Cheap, effective and versatile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 You may have trouble making Major with ports only. A friend tried that with a 9mm Glock, using factory Glock ported barrels. It didn't work. One of the guys I occasionally shoot with, a USPSA Open M, shoots an M&P 5" that he customized. He recommends starting with a CORE now, but that wasn't available when he did his. He has a lightened slide, a heavy magwell, a tungsten guide rod and a barrel with a custom comp on it. No barrel ports. He uses 124gr bullets and AutoComp and HS-6 powder. He makes Major and his gun shoots dead flat. Having someone build a custom M&P for you will run slightly over $2000. Dave O. told me there was no need to have one custom built. He said to start with a Pro or a CORE, have him do a trigger job on it (superb, BTW) and just buy the parts I wanted and install them. Everything is a drop-in fit. Of the pistols you listed, I'd go with the M&P or the Glock. You can buy anything you need aftermarket, and have multiple choices. I prefer the M&P because I like the grip better and you can get a better trigger than you can with a Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 zzt is giving good advice. If you go with a ported barrel, you will be shooting Open minor. There are smaller grips available for the 2011 design guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KampKustoms Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, zzt said: You may have trouble making Major with ports only. A friend tried that with a 9mm Glock, using factory Glock ported barrels. It didn't work. One of the guys I occasionally shoot with, a USPSA Open M, shoots an M&P 5" that he customized. He recommends starting with a CORE now, but that wasn't available when he did his. He has a lightened slide, a heavy magwell, a tungsten guide rod and a barrel with a custom comp on it. No barrel ports. He uses 124gr bullets and AutoComp and HS-6 powder. He makes Major and his gun shoots dead flat. Having someone build a custom M&P for you will run slightly over $2000. Dave O. told me there was no need to have one custom built. He said to start with a Pro or a CORE, have him do a trigger job on it (superb, BTW) and just buy the parts I wanted and install them. Everything is a drop-in fit. Of the pistols you listed, I'd go with the M&P or the Glock. You can buy anything you need aftermarket, and have multiple choices. I prefer the M&P because I like the grip better and you can get a better trigger than you can with a Glock. I agree with the M&P ergos. I have seen several people With CORE models running the Carver comp with good results. I like the idea of the porting just for ease of holster selection and working well with minor loads too. I'm used t 172PF in my Tangfo Limited .40. What about getting a second barrel for the ported model to use with a comp? Pre-lightened slide and I would have to get another barrel for the comp anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KampKustoms Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just now, JMike said: zzt is giving good advice. If you go with a ported barrel, you will be shooting Open minor. There are smaller grips available for the 2011 design guns. I have tried several of the smaller steel grips, even with a trimmed backstrap and grip safety. I just can't find a comfortable grip position that doesn't hit the bones in my hand. I have yet to find someone with a low ride safety to see if that gives some relief, I use a "ride the safety" grip like on my CZ and 1911 style guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 The other thing to consider for smaller grips is a CZ Czechmate. I believe there is one currently for sale in the classifieds section for around $2300. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMike Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 The other thing to consider for smaller grips is a CZ Czechmate. I believe there is one currently for sale in the classifieds section for around $2300. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KampKustoms Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 I would have to sacrifice too many other guns to get a Czechmate. A lot to invest before I even know I want to stick with open division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Just be aware that shooting major out of a M&P will crack the slide (when depends on how much you shoot, I got a bit over a year before it cracked from the ejection port forward on the left side of the slide, this happened on 2 different slides, I now shoot an STI) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KampKustoms Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 26 minutes ago, Bkreutz said: Just be aware that shooting major out of a M&P will crack the slide (when depends on how much you shoot, I got a bit over a year before it cracked from the ejection port forward on the left side of the slide, this happened on 2 different slides, I now shoot an STI) It wouldn't probably be more than 1 season, hopefully it will last that long. I average probably 1-2 mixed matches a month for my area. I would only have the major loads through the gun for USPSA matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Shot a Bobby Carver built Glock 17 open gun for a couple of years in 3-gun & USPSA. Did not quite make major, but had enough gas to operate the comp. Great for 3-gun, super reliable accurate. Had a very good Pyramid trigger in it. Paid $1200 for it off BE classifieds. Not ideal for USPSA. Shot minor. Tried major and it beat the gun up. Couple of guys I shoot with regular in USPSA shoot open Glocks minor loads and do well. I also have a Glock 34 with a ported barrel and a Burris dot on the slide. Not sure porting does anything. More load development. Shoot minor. Works well for 3-gun with the right load. Is fun in USPSA, but will not compete with the 2011. I shoot an STI DVC 2011 now in both. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superdude Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 1 hour ago, gerritm said: Shot a Bobby Carver built Glock 17 open gun for a couple of years in 3-gun & USPSA. Did not quite make major, but had enough gas to operate the comp. Great for 3-gun, super reliable accurate. Had a very good Pyramid trigger in it. Paid $1200 for it off BE classifieds. Not ideal for USPSA. Shot minor. Tried major and it beat the gun up. Couple of guys I shoot with regular in USPSA shoot open Glocks minor loads and do well. I also have a Glock 34 with a ported barrel and a Burris dot on the slide. Not sure porting does anything. More load development. Shoot minor. Works well for 3-gun with the right load. Is fun in USPSA, but will not compete with the 2011. I shoot an STI DVC 2011 now in both. gerritm Porting does reduce muzzle rise. http://www.shootingtimes.com/gunsmithing/recoil-reduction-ports-vs-compensator/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 IMHO I don't see a whole bunch of difference between having the barrel ported or not, but the right bullet weight & powder charge really does help. Significantly reduced muzzle rise and kept the dot on target. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Kamp, if you like the Carver comp you can buy a KKM barrel with the 4-port comp already attached and align reamed for about $339. That takes care of Major. If it were me, I'd buy the special barrel length that KKM makes for Carver (they will sell it to you, just as for the shorter threaded barrel for the M&P) and then fit an SJC comp. http://stores.sjcguns.com/sjc-major-9mm-11-port-aluminum-compensator/ I've found that the bore baffles you have, the softer it shoots. Plus you get to use a little slower powder to work all those ports. You will find that you can make a Minor load that will work out of your Major pistol, where the dot barely moves. You may have to change recoil springs. If you don't have to make Minor, then you don't even need a barrrel port. Here is an example. I shot a CZ 75 Tactical Sport for USPSA Limited. I wanted to play in Open, so I got a complete Open upper in 40sw for it. It worked fine. Then I developed a Minor load for it. It turned out that 3.5gr e3 under a 155gr plated bullet made 140PF and shot so flat the dot never moved. I also developed a Steel Challenge load for the regular upper. 3.3gr e3 under a 135gr bullet has no perceptible recoil and the sights don't move. It only makes 110PF, but who cares for Steel Challenge. You can do the same for your M&P. You will be able to shoot Major, Minor and sub-minor from the same gun. If you really want to play around with barrel porting, have one or two medium sized poppels put in the barrel that came with the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 gerritm, barrel ports make a big difference. You divert high pressure gas directly out of the poppels and that does a whole lot in keeping the gun down. You pay for that by requiring more powder to make Major, and a harder hit to the hand. To soften the recoil you use more of a slower powder to work all the comp baffles. You can do that, but it becomes louder and more and more concussive as you do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truborshooter Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 There is a well done thread a few years back about making M&P open guns. Appeared the shorter barrel worked better than the 5" if I remember correctly I did a quick search but sorry didn't find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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