147 gr. 9mm coated oal

[geno2k]

I got in 2 sample packs of Eggleston 9mm 147 and am looking for a place to start. I wanted to use either TG or 231. I am not finding much data on lead with these 2 powders. The biggest problem seems to be a really short throat on my M&P. I have loaded some dummy rounds to find the max length I can use and here are the results.

.357 dia. 1.100 oal w/.381 crimp size will plunk and spin.

.358 dia. 1.098 oal w/.380 crimp size will plunk and spin. (barely)

If I back off .005 will this be too short to load safely ? 1.095 and 1.093 respectively. How would I figure out a good starting load?

[jcc7x7]

I've shot them that short with no ill effect.

Check the forum on CZ loads, lots of those guys have to load short with factory chambers. (Many get them reamed out so they can load longer, you may want to do the same)

I used WSF when I was loading that short so unfortunately not much help with your two powder choices

[IDescribe]

Geno2k, the case walls of 9mm Luger start to thicken about .300 from the case mouth, and the interior diameter of the case declines.  As a general rule, you should avoid bullets that require you to seat their bases deeper than .300, or you run the risk of bowing out the case walls in the middle or even swaging down the bullet base, neither of which is a good thing.  You can usually get a little deeper than that without problem if the bullet's base has a bevel on it, but not much, and it's helpful to treat .300 as the limit.  It's not required, but it will save you some headaches.

Running .over-sized-for-caliber .357 or .358 lead bullets in 9mm is fine, and in my many barrels will improve accuracy over the more typically sized .356 bullets.  One trade-off, though, is that the wider .357 and .358 bullets will contact the rifling at a shorter OAL, and force you to load shorter than with a .356 bullet.

Running heavy-for-caliber 147gr bullets is fine, though some pistols will require an OAL that will put the bullet's base right down very near that point at .300 where the case walls start to thicken.  

Running 147gr bullets sized at .357 or .358?  That's asking too much for some pistols to deal.  

Just because a certain bullet combination is useful in one 9mm pistol doesn't mean it's useful in all.  This combination you have going right now seems to be stretching the boundaries of what your pistol will deal with.  At the end of the day, maybe you should chalk this one up as a lesson learned, and restrict your .357/.358 lead and coated lead use to 124gr/125gr bullets. 

[IHAVEGAS]

5 minutes ago, IDescribe said:

Geno2k, the case walls of 9mm Luger start to thicken about .300 from the case mouth, and the interior diameter of the case declines.  

Is the thickening of the case wall more than the taper from end to end? 

Maybe brass brand specific? 

[IDescribe]

Yes, it's more than the taper.  The interior diameter is uniform for the first .300 down from the case mouth, then gets narrower the deeper you go from there.  You can see it with the naked eye.  I have bisected a couple of cases to measure and look at it.  With the ones I've cut and measured, the thickening begins right at .300 from the case mouth.  Some time ago, a regular here, Smitty79, also cut and measured a number of different headstamps, and all of them started to thicken around .300 except for CBC, which has that shelf, and the shelf began at .280.

To be clear, I'm NOT saying that you can NOT seat deeper than .300, or that it will automatically result in crap cartridges.  I'm just saying you introduce the possibility of running into problems that you won't if you stay above that limit, and people can avoid some headaches by treating .300 as a hard deck.  You are also increasing pressures as you shrink the initial size of the combustion chamber, so having a hard deck limits the likelihood you're going to screw up there, as well.

This is not my photograph, but if you would like to see a photo of the walls thickening:

[Livin_cincy]

On 1/15/2017 at 10:46 AM, geno2k said:

I got in 2 sample packs of Eggleston 9mm 147 and am looking for a place to start. I wanted to use either TG or 231. I am not finding much data on lead with these 2 powders. The biggest problem seems to be a really short throat on my M&P. I have loaded some dummy rounds to find the max length I can use and here are the results.

.357 dia. 1.100 oal w/.381 crimp size will plunk and spin.

.358 dia. 1.098 oal w/.380 crimp size will plunk and spin. (barely)

If I back off .005 will this be too short to load safely ? 1.095 and 1.093 respectively. How would I figure out a good starting load?

I would say look for a different 147 grain bullet.
The Eggleston's do not seem to chamber for safe.

You are on the very min OAL on the Hodgdon CFE data with no room for case variance.

http://www.egglestonmunitions.com/load-data.html

These are comparable in price:
http://www.xtremebullets.com/9mm-147-RN-HPCB-p/xc9mm-147hpcb-b0500.htm

Edited January 19, 2017 by Livin_cincy

[Smitty79]

For coated bullets, I can load Acme 147 FP-NLG longer than any of the others I've tried.   I made it out to 1.14 on one of my Shadows.   I had to pull it in to 1.13 for the other one.

With the Acme bullet, I get 132 PF at 1.14 OAL with 3.2gns of TG.

With Blue Bullets 147 FP, I got 133 PF at 1.12 OAL with 3.2gns of TG.

If you are OK with plated, you can load Xtreme or Berry's plated much longer than the plated bullets I've tried.

[geno2k]

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:02 AM, jcc7x7 said:

 

Thanks for all of the replies. I rarely get away from published load data and I appreciate you all sharing knowledge with me. Here is an update from this weekends range test. I loaded up some test rounds 2.9 grains of 231 with a oal of 1.097, 3.0, 3.1, and 3.2. working with a Chrono and paper I discovered I needed to drop this entirely. Poor accuracy and more than comfortable variations in velocity. 2.9 grains were ok 30fps deviation. when I got to the 3 gr I found a problem. 85 fps deviation and notable difference in recoil. I stopped there. I did not even try to shoot the rest. I was getting uncomfortable with how it was going. the purpose was to find better accuracy and things were definitely headed in the wrong direction. I normally load 3.1 to 3.3 grains under 147 grain xtreme  loaded to 1.16. runs about 3.5 inches at 25 yds. I was hoping to find a combo that did better. Thanks again all.

[pixfella58]

I use Bayou's 147 FP and I load them to 1.130 out of my M&P CORE.  Great bullet...

[LikesToShoot]

Years ago i bought a bunch of bullets that didn't feed well in my gun. I found the needed OAL length for "that" bullet was much shorter than my chamber was used to.

I modified a special case to use when trying a new bullet, if needed due to a supply problem.

I seated a FMJ bullet in a case, drilled out primer pocket to 1/8", cut slits in opposites sides of the case and into the bullet.

Through the enlarged primer pocket I use a punch to push out the bullet. Finish by  de-buring the the "test" brass as needed.

 

Now I have a "tool" to use to help determine COL for any new bullet I want to try.

 

Start the new bullet into the "tool brass", place "test cartridge" into the barrel chamber and seat until flush. Remove and measure COL, repeat a couple times with other bullets to help determine MAX COL and back off at least .010" to keep the bullet off the barrel lands. You must consider magazine size, amount of bullet depth into brass and many other factors but at least your not cramming a bullet into a "short chamber".

 

I've found that reloading .223 that lighter weight bullets barely have any brass tension and must be seated deeper.

 

This method is to give me an idea of where I need to load certain bullets.

I used this when comparing 9mm  coated 147gr bullets from three major suppliers, two had identical COL one was shorter.

Good to know if switch from brand "A or B" to brand "C".

 

Be safe and work up loads slowly.

 

Steve

 

[Edmooberry]

My M&P pro loves the following:

 

SNS 147 gr LFP @ 1.13 OAL, 3.2 gr TG

SNS 147 gr LRN @ 1.15 OAL, 3.2 gr TG

 

Both are safely over min PF and the SNS seems to have a very forgiving ogive that allows you to load to that length in short chambered guns.  I had a CZ CTS LS-P that ate the same rounds with no issues.

[Flatland Shooter]

On 1/26/2017 at 10:25 PM, LikesToShoot said:

Now I have a "tool" to use to help determine COL for any new bullet I want to try.

 

I like the concept.  Thanks for sharing.