IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yesterday afternoon I made a hundred rounds for a match tonight. I made a habit of case gauging each round since I began reloading which I again with what I made yesterday. Just because I had the time I decided to also check them all in my barrel. Guess what, several didn't plunk & spin even though they case gauged with my Dillon CG... I made a few extra to fill my box with 100 that my barrel liked for tonight. I have been previously shooting the ones that checked out with my Dillon CG and seemed to shoot ok however I guess I'll stick with my barrel from now... It's so interesting, the more reloading I do the more I learn and also see how much more there is to learn and consequently enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 If they pass a gauge but not the barrel, 99.9% of the time they are too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicVerAZ Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 The Dillon CGs are tolerant, unlike the EGW ones. Confirmed by someone I know who works at Dillon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 get a 100 hole shock bottle gauge from Stoeger's pro Shop. It's tighter than the Dillon gauge. If I fail the 100 hole I gauge, I use the Dillon gauge. If it passes Dillon I put it in practice ammo. Never had a failure with ammo that passed the Dillon gauge. I think Sarge is right about length. How long are you loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Sarge said: If they pass a gauge but not the barrel, 99.9% of the time they are too long. I'll recheck that - thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Brooke said: get a 100 hole shock bottle gauge from Stoeger's pro Shop. It's tighter than the Dillon gauge. If I fail the 100 hole I gauge, I use the Dillon gauge. If it passes Dillon I put it in practice ammo. Never had a failure with ammo that passed the Dillon gauge. I think Sarge is right about length. How long are you loading. 4 minutes ago, Brooke said: get a 100 hole shock bottle gauge from Stoeger's pro Shop. It's tighter than the Dillon gauge. If I fail the 100 hole I gauge, I use the Dillon gauge. If it passes Dillon I put it in practice ammo. Never had a failure with ammo that passed the Dillon gauge. I think Sarge is right about length. How long are you loading. I shouldn't say this because now I will but I have had zero failures using the Dillon CG myself. That is why I thought it interesting when I dropped those in my barrel... Loading 145 gr coated @ 1.160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 26 minutes ago, Sarge said: If they pass a gauge but not the barrel, 99.9% of the time they are too long. I'm loading (9mm) 145 gr coated with 3.4 gr of titegroup producing a 135.9 PF now. If I drop back to .155 oal how much will that change the pressure/velocity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 37 minutes ago, NicVerAZ said: The Dillon CGs are tolerant, unlike the EGW ones. Confirmed by someone I know who works at Dillon. I dunno about that. I sent back my first Dillon .45acp CG because it wouldn't accept a decent percentage of factory new CCI Blazer. The replacement had the same issue. It's way way tighter than my Glock chambers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 52 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: I'm loading (9mm) 145 gr coated with 3.4 gr of titegroup producing a 135.9 PF now. If I drop back to .155 oal how much will that change the pressure/velocity? 1.155 is even long for a Glock. How long are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share Posted January 9, 2017 19 minutes ago, Sarge said: 1.155 is even long for a Glock. How long are they now? Have been shooting 1.160 for quite a while now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36873687 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 When I shot glock 1.145 ovl was as long as I could go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 hours ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: Have been shooting 1.160 for quite a while now... What bullet ran good that long? Have you changed bullets? So, if everything worked as is for a long time and now they don't, either something has changed or you have been very lucky they were not too long and pushing the bullet deeper when chambering. Pressure will spike. Do they spin freely in the chamber of an inverted barrel? Do they drop in and fall out with ZERO resistance? EVERY time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I always run The Plunk Test in my gun's barrel ... NEVER in a gauge. I don't care if the rounds fit the gauge, I only worry about them NOT fitting MY GUN. I do NOT plunk test all the thousands of rounds I load each year .. only those that will be used in major competitions. 1st, I get Very Few rounds that do not pass The Plunk Test. 2nd, if I get a FTF during practice or a club match, I don't care - I use it as a clearing exercise. So, Every Important Rounds gets Plunked into my chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler2you Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 As someone said above, if you're relying on a case gauge to catch rounds that are too long for your chamber you're doing it wrong. Set your OAL with a bit of margin for the amount of Leade in your chamber and you should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 17 hours ago, Sarge said: What bullet ran good that long? Have you changed bullets? So, if everything worked as is for a long time and now they don't, either something has changed or you have been very lucky they were not too long and pushing the bullet deeper when chambering. Pressure will spike. Do they spin freely in the chamber of an inverted barrel? Do they drop in and fall out with ZERO resistance? EVERY time? I began loading with rainier plated for several thousand, then Infinity plated and could throw them in a tighter group than shoot them, went to X-Treme plated which shot pretty well, then switched to Acme coated due to cost and being able to shoot more. However previous to Acme if it case gauged I shot it. This was before I knew about the plunk & spin, nor did I have a chrono then... I had been loading bunny farts before the chrono just to be safe. Consequently I'm trying to get things dialed in more as I continue to learn. If by inverted you mean holding the barrel vertical drop bullet in, if it seats with a "plunk", then I spin it with my fingers while still in the chamber, then turn over and they fall out on their own then yes this is how I do the plunk & spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 hours ago, tyler2you said: As someone said above, if you're relying on a case gauge to catch rounds that are too long for your chamber you're doing it wrong. Set your OAL with a bit of margin for the amount of Leade in your chamber and you should be fine. Not using cg for oal, but thanks for checking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGOTGLOCKED Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 4:14 PM, IGOTGLOCKED said: I shouldn't say this because now I will but I have had zero failures using the Dillon CG myself. That is why I thought it interesting when I dropped those in my barrel... Loading 145 gr coated @ 1.160 Ok so last night I went to shoot a GADPA match. And my second shot was a FTF! I just shook my head after bragging I never had any issues... After I finished shooting my stage I examined the bullet (with my glasses on!) and saw the side down by the case base was cracked, apparently this is what caused the FTF. And I'm glad it didn't load, might have had a KB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, IGOTGLOCKED said: Ok so last night I went to shoot a GADPA match. And my second shot was a FTF! I just shook my head after bragging I never had any issues... After I finished shooting my stage I examined the bullet (with my glasses on!) and saw the side down by the case base was cracked, apparently this is what caused the FTF. And I'm glad it didn't load, might have had a KB... They shoot fine generally IF they chamber. Usually they won't. If you had gauged them you would have caught it too. One of the best reasons to gauge every round is that you get to touch and feel each one as well. You can find cracks, high primers, no primers, etc. if you just crank the handle a thousand times you end up with 1000 rounds of ammo that you THINK are good to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) The shockbottle 100rnd gauge is one of the best things ever made. Get. One. Immediately. I actually load my ammo into plastic 100rnd storage boxes again, since it takes two quick flips after gauging each 100rd lot. I think one of the best things you can do is to check perfect, slightly sticky, and total failure rounds from your vague with your barrel. It's important to know what a round that won't plunk & spin feels like when run through your gauge, otherwise you need to use your barrel to ensure reliable ammo. Edited January 11, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 10 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said: ... if I get a FTF during ... a club match, I don't care - I use it as a clearing exercise. I disagree with this on principle. I treat local matches like they are major matches, thus I try to perform 100% my best with consistency. If I hit a noshoot, it's a big problem and not "ohhhhh, it's just a club match" ... and the same goes for my ammunition. It doesn't take long to run 300 rounds through a shockbottle and molest their backsides looking for high primers. Practice ammo gets cranked out and loaded, sure. But if you treat local matches like practice for Majors, and not just practice for practice's sake, you want things to run like they do in a major. (Yes, I do chamber check ammo for Majors. But invariably find nothing the shockbottle didn't catch.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 No need to load that long! drop your powder charge down .01, shorten up your OAL to 1.140" and rechrono. you will not have to worry about the bullet hitting the rifling of your barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikieM Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 3:04 PM, Brooke said: get a 100 hole shock bottle gauge from Stoeger's pro Shop. It's tighter than the Dillon gauge. If I fail the 100 hole I gauge, I use the Dillon gauge. If it passes Dillon I put it in practice ammo. Never had a failure with ammo that passed the Dillon gauge. I think Sarge is right about length. How long are you loading. Yep. All my match stuff goes through one of those. When using the Shock Bottle, I look at both sides. On the head side I make sure they've all dropped in, and cull any that haven't. I check all the primers while I'm there for any high ones, or mal-formed ones. I then hold it up and look at the bullet noses on the other side. Every once in awhile there may be one that is too long. They are easy to spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikieM Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 On 1/9/2017 at 3:22 PM, IGOTGLOCKED said: I'm loading (9mm) 145 gr coated with 3.4 gr of titegroup producing a 135.9 PF now. If I drop back to .155 oal how much will that change the pressure/velocity? I would try an OAL if 1.125, or maybe 1.135. Maybe drop the powder a couple of tenths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, 57K said: And some opinions can be filed under, "Just my Opinion" because we probably don't know the backstory. For me, it's the same way with reloading dies. I just don't believe that dies that are 1/2 the price work as well as the best. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF 550'S, 650'S AND EVEN 1050'S WITH NOTHING BUT LEE DIES IN THEM. THEY ARE EXCEPTIONALLY HIGH QUALITY DIES. I HAVE TRIED A FEW SIZING DIES AND LEE IS THE BEST I FOUND. I've bought different brands of dies over the years not named LEE and they've all worked well. YOU ARE MISSING OUT. YOU SHOULD BUY SOME LEE DIES I don't need or want gadgets to correct problems I should be able to identify with proven methods and tools like a caliper. If your cases are not below the SAAMI Max specs for diameter, you likely have a problem with your resizing die. OR THE CASE WALLS ARE THINNER THAN OTHERS. OR YOU ARE USING THE WRONG DIES. GOOD OLD LEE DIES SIZE SMALLER THAN MOST. If there is not enough tension from your case-necks on the bullet, your expander is likely overdiameter , NECK TENSION IS CREATED BY SIZING PROPERLY IN THE FIRST PLACE. ALSO, MANY BELIEVE THE FALSEHOOD OF CRIMPING MORE AND MORE TO INCREASE NECK TENSION WHEN IN FACT THE MORE YOU CRIMP THE MORE YOU LESSEN NECK TENSION. No U-dies, no M-dies and no Factory Crimp dies and I've never own ed a case-guage for 9mm BOY ARE YOU MISSING OUT ON SOME AWESOME TOOLS. U-DIES TAKE ALL THE WORRY OF BULLET SET BACK, THIN CASE WALLS, ETC. OUT OF THE EQUATION. THE FCD IS GENERALLY NOT NEEDED IF RUNNING A U-DIE SINCE THEY BOTH KIND OF ENSURE THE SAME RESULT BUT MANY USE IT JUST BECAUSE ITS EASY TO ADJUST. WE TURN THEM WAY OUT AND JUST USE THE CRIMP FEATURE. Load to an OACL that gives the best accuracy. In my case I do not want an excessive distance for bullet jump from the case to the barrels rifling. That does not mean, however, that you need to crowd the lands, Rifle or handgun. EVERY GUN IS DIFFERENT. BULLET JUMP OR CROWDING LANDS MEAN VERY LITTLE FOR WHAT WE USE OUR AMMO FOR HERE. GUNS EACH HAVE A PREFERRED LENGTH THEY LIKE BEST. THE ONLY THING TO DO IS TEST,TEST,TEST UNTIL YOU FIND IT. OFTEN TIMES THE MOST ACCURATE LOADS ARE WAY SHORTER THAN SAAMI SPEC OR SOME OTHER SUGGESTED LENGTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js1130146 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Just FYI 57K, your post comes across as extremely arrogant and condescending. Us lesser reloaders must be making truly awful rounds with our Frankford Arsenal digital calipers and Lee dies. The shortened, sensationalized quote at the end is a little unnecessary as well. We're here to collaborate and share ideas. Not talk down to each other. Edited January 11, 2017 by js1130146 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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