Options for dies?

[IGOTGLOCKED]

I'm not a machinist but why can't the Dillon dies be fine threaded? It is SO difficult to fine tune these dies on my 650, SO frustrating! What options are out there for dies that have fine tuning capabilities especially for:

Powder drop

Seating

Crimp (separate from seating)

Thx!

Edited January 9, 2017 by IGOTGLOCKED

[DKnoch]

Redding competition seating die would work, but is expensive. Not sure about the rest, but redding makes about the best pistol dies that I know of. I dont own any though, I havent had the need for that type of precision in loading pistol

Daniel K

[Alan550]

Powder drop - none of which I'm aware

Seating - what DKnoch said.  I've been running the Redding Competition Seating die for years and it's extremely accurate.  Mostly it comes in handy when trying different OALs testing accuracy.  Turn it up or down according to the markings and it gives you what you ask for with no second guessing.

Crimp shouldn't be a problem with the Dillon unless you're using range-pickup brass that varies in case wall thickness or length.  If you're using all the same headstamp you should be good after one setting of that die.  Initial setup is a pain as you said, but it only needs to be done once.

[Sarge]

IMHO the competition micrometer $80 die is a waste of money for pistol. I tried one and my oal was all over the place. BUT I did get the Redding Pro seater die for $30 from midway. Course threads into the tool head and very fine threads for tuning. 

 Crimp, I find I rarely move it so Dillon works for that.

same with powder die. I only mess with that if I want to open or close a little for jacketed vs coated etc.

Get the Pro seater. It works great and is quality made

[IGOTGLOCKED]

1 hour ago, DKnoch said:

Redding competition seating die would work, but is expensive. Not sure about the rest, but redding makes about the best pistol dies that I know of. I dont own any though, I havent had the need for that type of precision in loading pistol

Daniel K
 

Thx!

[IGOTGLOCKED]

1 hour ago, Alan550 said:

Powder drop - none of which I'm aware

Seating - what DKnoch said.  I've been running the Redding Competition Seating die for years and it's extremely accurate.  Mostly it comes in handy when trying different OALs testing accuracy.  Turn it up or down according to the markings and it gives you what you ask for with no second guessing.

Crimp shouldn't be a problem with the Dillon unless you're using range-pickup brass that varies in case wall thickness or length.  If you're using all the same headstamp you should be good after one setting of that die.  Initial setup is a pain as you said, but it only needs to be done once.

I am using range pickup but plan on sorting to head stamp. And the crimp is also a major pain as it has to be re-adjusted when I remove the shell plate to clean / re-tighten, etc.

I come back to my original question, why couldn't they machine them to be fine thread?

Thank you sir!

Edited January 9, 2017 by IGOTGLOCKED

[IGOTGLOCKED]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

IMHO the competition micrometer $80 die is a waste of money for pistol. I tried one and my oal was all over the place. BUT I did get the Redding Pro seater die for $30 from midway. Course threads into the tool head and very fine threads for tuning. 

 Crimp, I find I rarely move it so Dillon works for that.

same with powder die. I only mess with that if I want to open or close a little for jacketed vs coated etc.

Get the Pro seater. It works great and is quality made

Thanks Top, and no issues with a .356 (is what I use) diameter 9mm vs: the standard .355? Redding said their comp dies sometimes shave some off some of the bullets (larger dia than .355) in other than a jacketed bullet!

I just looked at the Redding Pro seater die. It looks the same as the comp die just no numbers / indicators on it?

Edited January 9, 2017 by IGOTGLOCKED

[IGOTGLOCKED]

24 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

Thanks Top, and no issues with a .356 (is what I use) diameter 9mm vs: the standard .355? Redding said their comp dies sometimes shave some off some of the bullets (larger dia than .355) in other than a jacketed bullet!

I just looked at the Redding Pro seater die. It looks the same as the comp die just no numbers / indicators on it?

This is a review off amazon for the Redding Pro:

The only down side I can see is the seater plug seems really sharp. You do not notice it on plated, jacketed, or regular lead bullets. However if you shoot a coated lead bullet (like the Bayou Bullets) it cuts a ring in the coating on the top 1/3 of the bullet as it presses the bullet down in the case. 

Have you experienced this?

[Sarge]

9 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

Thanks Top, and no issues with a .356 (is what I use) diameter 9mm vs: the standard .355? Redding said their comp dies sometimes shave some off some of the bullets (larger dia than .355) in other than a jacketed bullet!

I LOAD 355 AND 356 AND DONT CHANGE A THING ON THE PRO SEATER. NO SHSVING ON THE 356 BBI'S

I just looked at the Redding Pro seater die. It looks the same as the comp die just no numbers / indicators on it?

YEP. SAME FINE THREADS JUST NO MICOMETER DEVICE.

 

[Sarge]

8 minutes ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

This is a review off amazon for the Redding Pro:

The only down side I can see is the seater plug seems really sharp. You do not notice it on plated, jacketed, or regular lead bullets. However if you shoot a coated lead bullet (like the Bayou Bullets) it cuts a ring in the coating on the top 1/3 of the bullet as it presses the bullet down in the case. 

Have you experienced this?

 

It has never cut the coating but it will make a tiny ring in the tip of coated and soft plated like Xtremes. But then again so did the Dillon die.

That "nipple" has been discussed a lot here and is harmless

[Brooke]

1 hour ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

I am using range pickup but plan on sorting to head stamp. And the crimp is also a major pain as it has to be re-adjusted when I remove the shell plate to clean / re-tighten, etc.

I come back to my original question, why couldn't they machine them to be fine thread?

Thank you sir!

Not sure what removing the shell plate has to do with the crimp die. My crimp die is set at 0.378 and seldom varies more than 0.001. That includes taking the entire press down to replace the frequent broken indexer rings. I have no problems with the Dillon sizing die and powder/expanding die. I do use a Lee factory crimp die because it gives me better results than the Dillon in the area of size consistency near the head of the casing. I tried the Redding Competition seating die and didn't like it because it put a ring on jacketed bullets. The Dillon seating die die works better for me. I have a couple of the Redding dies someone can have if you want them.

[IGOTGLOCKED]

3 minutes ago, Brooke said:

Not sure what removing the shell plate has to do with the crimp die. My crimp die is set at 0.378 and seldom varies more than 0.001. That includes taking the entire press down to replace the frequent broken indexer rings. I have no problems with the Dillon sizing die and powder/expanding die. I do use a Lee factory crimp die because it gives me better results than the Dillon in the area of size consistency near the head of the casing. I tried the Redding Competition seating die and didn't like it because it put a ring on jacketed bullets. The Dillon seating die die works better for me. I have a couple of the Redding dies someone can have if you want them.

Well, once again I am the odd guy out. All I can tell you is I removed the shell plate to clean it, re-grease it and put it back together. Then I had to re-adjust my dies...

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

Well, once again I am the odd guy out. All I can tell you is I removed the shell plate to clean it, re-grease it and put it back together. Then I had to re-adjust my dies...

That is normal. The plate will NOT be at exact same height when you pull it off and reinstall. Therefore your dies will be further away or closer to the plate. OFTEN, it is so close as not to matter.

you are not odd.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Sarge

[HOGRIDER]

6 hours ago, IGOTGLOCKED said:

This is a review off amazon for the Redding Pro:

The only down side I can see is the seater plug seems really sharp. You do not notice it on plated, jacketed, or regular lead bullets. However if you shoot a coated lead bullet (like the Bayou Bullets) it cuts a ring in the coating on the top 1/3 of the bullet as it presses the bullet down in the case. 

Have you experienced this?

 

IGOT:

Here's an example of my loading of 135g and 147g Bayous using the Redding Comp Seater die (also use the micrometer crimp die), and you can see there's no indication of the seater die cutting a ring.........

HTHs

[dillon]

If you are referring to the external die body threads, the 7/8-14 thread per inch count was pretty much standard by the 1950s. Ideal/Lyman Products used a 5/8-30 TPI die from about the turn of the century, but RCBS popularized the 7/8-14 TPI, and everyone has followed suit. For the larger diameter cartridges it is necessary. Other than the Square Deal B, Dillon reloading equipment is threaded for the standard 7/8-14 TPI dies, so customers can use the dies they often already have.

[Youngeyes]

20 hours ago, Sarge said:

That is normal. The plate will NOT be at exact same height when you pull it off and reinstall. Therefore your dies will be further away or closer to the plate. OFTEN, it is so close as not to matter.

you are not odd.

I'm not sure why the shell plate has any effect on the die adjustment. Why would the rounds be closer or further away from the dies when you take off then re insert the plate? 

[TDA]

If the shell plate is loose enough to have an effect on your OAL or crimp, it's just way too loose!

Your problem is with your consistency in removing and installing/adjusting the shell plate, not with the adjustment of the crimp die or die adjustment in general.

[Brooke]

Agreed. The shell plate should not be so loose it can be flexed by pushing it on opposite sides and not so tight it is difficult to turn. That locks it in a pretty narrow range. However on the 650 the casing rests on the shell plate, not the platform as the 550 does. This does make it sensitive to any looseness of the shellplate. Unfortunately this design is necessary to make rotation low torque so the index ring can turn it.

It's a bad design requirement necessitated by auto indexing. After recently breaking 3 index rings, I think both the 550 and 1050 are superior machines. Too late for me to cry over spilled milk.

 

 

[IGOTGLOCKED]

4 hours ago, dillon said:

If you are referring to the external die body threads, the 7/8-14 thread per inch count was pretty much standard by the 1950s. Ideal/Lyman Products used a 5/8-30 TPI die from about the turn of the century, but RCBS popularized the 7/8-14 TPI, and everyone has followed suit. For the larger diameter cartridges it is necessary. Other than the Square Deal B, Dillon reloading equipment is threaded for the standard 7/8-14 TPI dies, so customers can use the dies they often already have.

Thank you for the feedback, I did mention I'm not a machinist... It would however be awesome if Dillon would offer options to allow those of us (many) who over time have expressed a desire for the ability to adjust our Dillon dies with greater ease through the use of some type of finer adjustment capability. I for one don't want to crossbreed "other" dies with my Dillon. 

Thanks for the consideration!

[IGOTGLOCKED]

1 hour ago, Youngeyes said:

I'm not sure why the shell plate has any effect on the die adjustment. Why would the rounds be closer or further away from the dies when you take off then re insert the plate? 

It wouldn't be noticeable if only off by a few 1000ths but one could certainly see the difference with the end product, IMO.

[Sarge]

3 hours ago, Youngeyes said:

I'm not sure why the shell plate has any effect on the die adjustment. Why would the rounds be closer or further away from the dies when you take off then re insert the plate? 

Because if we are talking about 1000th"causing problems then a plate can easily be a different distance from a die when tightened or loosened. It's also going to tilt to and fro if it's loose. Push down on a loose plate and the other side comes way up.

All I know is, when I do a complete tear down I get a slightly different oal when I just put it back together and check.

[Youngeyes]

3 hours ago, Sarge said:

Because if we are talking about 1000th"causing problems then a plate can easily be a different distance from a die when tightened or loosened. It's also going to tilt to and fro if it's loose. Push down on a loose plate and the other side comes way up.

Doesn't the fact that you are running all stations full, stop any minor tilt factor?

All I know is, when I do a complete tear down I get a slightly different oal when I just put it back together and check.

I know that you run an upgrade bearing to get an extra tightening of the shell plate. You still notice a difference?

 

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, Youngeyes said:

 

If a shell plate is full everything is less pronounced for sure but still there. Yes I run a bearing and can really tighten the thing down but it still does not come back to the same EXACT place every time.

[jschweg]

The newer style Dillion dies with the quick release clips are awesome because it makes cleaning them a piece of cake, however I find myself missing the older style 2 piece dies which made finer adjustments easier.

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[BeerBaron]

Buy the lee dies. They do the 'rough' adjustment with the die body but the fine adjustment is done with an adjustable insert. So much easier to adjust and cleaning has never been an issue for me. I love most dillon gear but the lee dies are great. A full lee die set is about the same as an expensive micrometer seating die. The lee seating die also doesn't mark up the nose on lead bullets and lee will also make custom seating stems for you for about $5 for any bullet profile so that it seats properly by the shoulder. 

If you buy the 4 die set you also get the lee factory crimp die which also has that micrometer 'style' adjustment for crimp. So much easier than doing it with the die body and finding it keeps changing slightly after you tighten the lock ring...