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Win AutoComp question


AR15-SBR

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Picked up a pound of this powder to play with because it was on sale.  I used the Win/Hodgdon starting load for my 45acp of 6.5 gr, behind a 200gr. bullet.  After shooting 20-25 of the loads I noticed there was some Tan/Brown crumbs left in the barrel.(they were easy to blow out of the barrel)  Accuracy was very good out of my Les Baer 1911, but not so good out of my HK45(Polygonal rifling issue)

My question is...Is Autocomp like Unique and burns cleaner with more pressure???

 

Thanks

AR15-SBR

 

 

 

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Well duhh,  I just noticed I posted a .45 load question in the 9mm area.  Mods can move this it they want.  I am planning on loading some 9mm 125gr. FMJ with this powder as well, so I guess it will be relevant.

I don't have a Chrono, so no idea on the velocity.  I usually start loading at the load manual starting load and work up until I get a reliable functioning load(these are just for plinking).

My normal load for these pistols is 4gr. of VV N310(when I can find it) topped with a 200gr. cast/PC boolit.

I bought this powder because it was "on sale" and I noticed the was load data for both 9mm and 45acp and it would give me something to play with if I cant find and VV N310

AR15-SBR

 

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Well,  This thread has propped me to buy a Chronograph.(LONG overdue, I agree) and I will see what my Actual velocities are compared to the books.

57K, thank you for the info and the heads up on the Vectan powder I will keep my eye out for some.  Is there a source for load data for pistol loads?  Everything I have found has been for shotgun loads.

I know that my N310 loads Chrono at 780fps. and the book says they should be 892ps, but they cycle in all of my pistols, are VERY accurate and that is what I am most concerned with.

The store had some of the CFE Pistol powder on sale a month back....I guess I should have picked up some then as well.

I will have to start scrutinizing the load data pressures more when looking for loads.

AR15-SBR

 

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46 minutes ago, AR15-SBR said:

 I know my N310 loads Chrono at 780fps. and the book says they should be 892ps

WOW.    :huh:

Are you shooting very short barrels?

That's a very large discrepancy.

Are you positive you're throwing the correct amount of powder?

You hit it on the head - the chrono is Long OverDue.     :bow:

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5" 1911 and HK45 barrels.

I am using a "custom" bullet mold that I cast.  It is the Lee 230 TC Tumble lube 6 cav, that I had .080 milled off the top making it drop at 208-210gr. with air cooled wheel weight lead that I powder coat.  

I began using this load MANY years ago except with 4.5gr. when I heard it was the Wilson Custom Shop accuracy load.(shot a Gazillion of these.)  Then ran across some info that claimed this was an overpressure load and I read that VV said 4grs. was max. So I dropped down to that.  There was no loss in accuracy and the load functions all of my 45s so I stuck with it.  Then a couple years ago a friend let me send a few over his chrony and I got the real velocity.  There wasn't any problems with the load so I stuck with it.  I load them by the 50 cal ammo can full.

BTY,  The chrony should be here next week.  Maybe I can get some numbers then.

AR15-SBR

Edited by AR15-SBR
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I load 7.5 of WAC under a 124 JHP for 9 Major. Runs in a V6 set up.

I still have the same type of soot you are seeing. Normally clean my guns every 1K or just before my last practice session before a major.

Never had issues with cycling due to build up over time.

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15 hours ago, AR15-SBR said:

Well,  This thread has propped me to buy a Chronograph.(LONG overdue, I agree) and I will see what my Actual velocities are compared to the books.

57K, thank you for the info and the heads up on the Vectan powder I will keep my eye out for some.  Is there a source for load data for pistol loads?  Everything I have found has been for shotgun loads.

I know that my N310 loads Chrono at 780fps. and the book says they should be 892ps, but they cycle in all of my pistols, are VERY accurate and that is what I am most concerned with.

The store had some of the CFE Pistol powder on sale a month back....I guess I should have picked up some then as well.

I will have to start scrutinizing the load data pressures more when looking for loads.

AR15-SBR

 

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/tech-resource/technicalResourceId/20

 

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6 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

I load 7.5 of WAC under a 124 JHP for 9 Major. Runs in a V6 set up.

I still have the same type of soot you are seeing. Normally clean my guns every 1K or just before my last practice session before a major.

Never had issues with cycling due to build up over time.

Yeah, it doesn't seem possible to run it hot enough to get it to run super clean. I run 7.8 WAC under 115's and the gun gets pretty blackened up over a handful of local matches.

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yep, I had an issue running auto comp in a 38 super open gun running 7.6gn (load was way hot, over 1400 fps with a 124gn CMJ RN).

I would get black flakes coming out of the gun and ending up on my right forearm/wrist. really weird stuff. I've never noticed it with any other powder. it's sort of like black ash but a bit harder. I also had woeful accuracy which I believe was either from pushing the plated bullets too fast (though these frontiers have always seemed basically equal to jacketed in performance) or it was the heat from the load burning the base of the bullets. either way I need to experiment a bit further with WAC. 

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22 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

Thanks for catching that, superdude!

 

AR15-SBR, check out the data from the link superdude provided. You'll probably want to download it. Then go to the Lapua/Vihta Vouri site for their data; you'll see that they're the same for Ba 9 1/2 and N320. There is no Vectan equivalent for N310 as yet, but you might want to look at the data for Prima V or SV and see how it compares to the data for N310.

Vit's burn rate chart has Ba10 equivalent to N310. I am going to find out later this year as I just picked up a pound to try in my .45 and PCC ;)

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24 minutes ago, BeerBaron said:

yep, I had an issue running auto comp in a 38 super open gun running 7.6gn (load was way hot, over 1400 fps with a 124gn CMJ RN).

I would get black flakes coming out of the gun and ending up on my right forearm/wrist. really weird stuff. I've never noticed it with any other powder. it's sort of like black ash but a bit harder. I also had woeful accuracy which I believe was either from pushing the plated bullets too fast (though these frontiers have always seemed basically equal to jacketed in performance) or it was the heat from the load burning the base of the bullets. either way I need to experiment a bit further with WAC. 

I am running 6.9 gr AC with a Frontier 121 FP with no flakiness other than me. 1404 Avg FPS last chrono.

Edited by ChuckS
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2 hours ago, ChuckS said:

I am running 6.9 gr AC with a Frontier 121 FP with no flakiness other than me. 1404 Avg FPS last chrono.

Thanks Chuck. I'm assuming thats in a 9mm?

I've always had great accuracy with frontier projectiles. even though they are plated I've found they perform basically on par with jacketed for me and I really like their 124gn RN and 115gn RN. I've not tried (or seen?) their 121FP (have seen a 124FP?).

This is one of the first times I've tried a load that was just flat out horrible. I've had loads before that grouped better or worse by changing a variable (more or less powder, shorter or longer oal etc) but this load was flat out un-usable. Group size was nearly the size of a IPSC turtle at 15 meters (off hand). 

given you're pushing frontiers over 1400fps without issue it's quite likely I just stumbled upon a bad combo:

either not working well with my schumann barrel, possibly a change in OAL, crimp, or powder charge may have improved it. It was such a bad group I though the gun was somehow broken! or the bullets were striking baffles! I proved that was not the case by immediately shooting my regular 3N38 load which grouped nicely as it always does.

2 things I saw with the WAC load that I hadn't seen before was the black shit all over my wrist/forearm and I also saw sparks (not flame) in the comp. This was what made me think it was striking baffles but that is unlikely as it wasn't happening with the 3N38 load which was identical in everyday apart from the powder charge and type.

I think I just need to experiment a bit more with WAC and try some different OAL/crimp/charge weight and maybe try some different projies too. 

Edited by BeerBaron
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37 minutes ago, BeerBaron said:

Thanks Chuck. I'm assuming thats in a 9mm?

 

Yup 9. I tried the 121's based on a tip from Gary Blunt who sells them at Rio Salado. 121's are popular with IPSC shooters as that is the lightest bullet they can use for Open major. I'm thinking that if they are good enough for Eric G., they should be OK for me. When I first got my 9 I was using Frontier 124 RN that I had bought back when I was shooting a CZ in production. I now just use them in PCC. RN for PCC, FP for open is pretty easy to remember.

I have heard that AET barrels are not kind to plated bullets. I have a standard Schuemann barrel and they are fine.

You might want to check your comp for cracks or something. Perhaps clean it :lol:

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Thanks Chuck, my usual supplier didn't have the 121's last time but I saw them on their site and I've made an inquiry. 

My schumann is non-aet too (1:32 twist from memory, has 2 large ports in the barrel and SVI titanium 3 chamber comp with side bleeders). 

lol. :) I do give my comp the odd scraping with my arredondo comp tool.

I have to say the frontiers have been excellent bullets. I've shot heaps of the 124gn RN in open in various open guns including my old tanfoglio V12 with a massive 10.2gn of 3N38 behind them and they shot very well. I've also used the 115gn in steel challenge and the 135gn and 147gn RN in production. Just that one particular combo with WAC was.... well..... whack!

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1 minute ago, 57K said:

 

That's interesting, ChuckS. It'll also be interesting to see what your results are. Initially, N310 was not offered and Ba 10 has been around long enough that there could be a correlation. What I've found concerning Ba 6 1/2, 7 1/2 and 9 1/2 with Vihta Vouri and Vectan/Nobelsport being owned by the same European conglomerate is that the newer 3 Ba powders pretty much match a timeline when V-V workers went on strike and 3 new Vectan powders appeared, and I happened to catch the data being the same as V-V N110, N350 and N320 respectively.

I got interested in the Vectan powders back when SP2 was available, but since the new Ba powders have come online the SP powders are not available; in the US, anyway.

I will try and remember to let you know how it goes. I only shoot .45 if I am going to go to the WSSSC in Mesa in the fall. I was using N320 for the longest time (I also used it in .40) and then I tried Clays and really like the results. Clays became unavailable during the last shortage so I started looking for a fast powder substitute. I had noticed that Ba10 was in the ballpark but never got around to trying it. Last year, a friend gave me a pound of N310 and it tested well. Not too long ago, another guy mentioned that he had room in his Powder Valley order so I had him throw in a pound of Ba10 and Titewad to play with. I will toy with this stuff this fall.

 

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