MemphisMechanic Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) HAMMER ... SPRING ... DEATH ... MATCH Version 2.0 If you want to see the trigger pull weights for each of these springs without any changes to the gun? CLICK HERE Test procedure: The gun was held vertically against the side of the table top and fired. Height was observed from my iPhone mounted in a small tripod, and the video paused to see how high the eraser of the pencil was at the peak of it's flight. I played the video back and paused it and recorded the measurement. I also did all of these tests with the firing pin block removed so that it's fitting wouldn't be a factor. Example: A 19" measurement of the 14 pound Patriot Defense hammer spring and their Optimized firing pin: Now you know how much a #2 pencil weighs. They were all 80-85 grains, and I used the four closest matching ones for these tests. First I tested the 14 pound PD spring because it was already in the gun. With and without the extended / heavier PD firing pin: 1. 14 pound PD with factory firing pin:Pencil Heights: 16" ... 15.5" ... 15" (Average 15.5") 2. 14 pound PD with PD "Optimized" firing pin:Pencil Heights: 19.5" ... 18.5" ... 19.0" (Average 19") So in my gun, on this day, the P.D. unscientifically hits roughly 23% harder than the factory one. That's definitely good news! 3. 13 pound PD with PD "Optimized" firing pin:Pencil Heights: 19.0" ... 18.5" ... 20.0" (Average 19.1666") 4. 14 pound WOLFF with PD "Optimized" firing pin:Pencil Heights: 20.0" ... 21.0" ... 20.5" ... 21" ... 20.5" (Average 20.6") 5. EGD Medium with PD "Optimized" firing pin:Pencil Heights: 25" ... 26" ... 26" (Average 25.666") A note on consistency: I consider a tolerance of +/- 0.5" to be the margin of error for each launch as far as measuring it next to a carpenter's level on video. I'd consider an average of 18.5 and one of 19" to be practically identical. Firing with the gun tilted just a bit off off vertical would lower the launching height considerably due to the pencil dragging in the barrel. I was able to lower the 19" launches of the PD 14 a full two inches by tilting the gun less than 5 degrees away from vertical. This is anything but scientific. Your mileage may vary. Professional driver on a closed course. Do not feed mogwai after midnight. From what I learned, these springs are all pretty closely matched. [EDIT] The lack of difference between my brand new PD 13 and broken-in PD 14 spring launch heights makes sense, given that the 14 pounder has perhaps 1,500 cycles on it. The Patriot firing pin definitely made an obvious change to how high my gun tosses pencils. I hope that it's enough to crush CCI's from now on. If not, I'm tossing the EGD Medium spring in there. @waktasz was right - it's a damned monster compared to the lighter options on the market. Edited January 4, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emjei Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The Wolff 13# is missing Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, emjei said: The Wolff 13# is missing If you want to mail me one... I can't test what I don't have. Edited January 4, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 At a guess, the pd14 has been cycled hundreds of times and the pd 13 was fresh? All my readings dropped an inch or so after the initial "set" of the springs were reached. No big deal, and nicely documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Valid point, John, and obvious enough I should have gone there instantly. The 13 pounder has indeed only seen a few dozen dryfirings and spent perhaps 10 minutes in the gun. I have 1,000+ rounds downrange and easily 500 dryfires with the PD 14... and it's been compressed under the hammer for two months. This makes all kinds of sense. Edited January 4, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 See! I tolds you i waz smart! Lol. I've been told i have a knack of pointing out the obvious. That ... and i went through this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 VERY encouraging!!!Being I was 100% on all ammo w/ wolf #14 spring and crazy light firing pin.I'm feeling optimistic about my chances of being 100% again with PD #13 spring and PD pin!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotDefense Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 15.5lb Optimized springs on the way!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Send me the first one you make. This morning I had actually decided to run the EGD Medium spring. Since I run the worst-case scenario for reliable ignition (CCI primers seated on a Dillon 650)... I want the extra margin over the 14 pound spring. If you can make a 15-15.5 pound spring that doesn't stack like the EGD springs do, I want it. A lot. I'd rather have a smooth crisp 7 pound DA and not have the slightest concern when loading ammo, than try to chase a 5 pound DA and shoot a princess that requires Federal primers loaded with meticulous attention. Edited January 4, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Midway had federal SPP in stock yesterday. Chase that 3# trigger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Been there, done that. PD10 gives 3# 8oz da 14-15 oz SA. Federal 100% reliable, but a bit "touchy" in SA.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotDefense Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, johnbu said: Been there, done that. PD10 gives 3# 8oz da 14-15 oz SA. Federal 100% reliable, but a bit "touchy" in SA.. John, you need to move somewhere warm so you dont have so much time to polish your guns during the winter months....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Haha. it's warm here.... (Compared to pluto) High temp today was expected to reach zero (it didn't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Single or double action pulls for the test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, waktasz said: Single or double action pulls for the test? Good question. Those are all double action. I didn't want to punch holes in the kitchen ceiling with the EGD Medium in single action. Edited January 4, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 wow really. My DA pulls with my EG light spring barely go a foot. I stole some new pencils from work to test out though, maybe I got a bad batch of ticonderoga primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 All my pencils used weighed a hair over 80 grains, and you've gotta be very meticuous about tipping the gun so that the pencil is clearly dead vertical. But I can see that measurement - my 14# PD spring and the factory firing pin went 15-15.5" on average, and the EGD light is probably what? An 11ish pound spring maybe? Yours also has a ton of firing cycles on it, right? That's hardly a new spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotDefense Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 EGD Light spring is 13.8lbs....... Per Eric's site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Hmmm finally got some new pencils.Just eyeballing, DA with the #13 PD was 14-16" SA 19-20"I'll try to get more accurate numbers in the morning.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 @IronArcher which firing pin did you have installed for that test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 So with that being said what is the correlation between pencil height and what primers it will set off reliably? Has anyone figured that out? We might be able get quantifiable metrics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronArcher Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 @IronArcher which firing pin did you have installed for that test?PDO.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nathanb said: So with that being said what is the correlation between pencil height and what primers it will set off reliably? Has anyone figured that out? We might be able get quantifiable metrics My gun was launching pencils 15.5" with PD 14 pound spring and the factory Tanfoglio firing pin. It would set off anything except CCI's that weren't below flush in the case... and even then it was down to 3 clicks in 150 rounds of double action. (Do you have any idea how boring it is to decock and shoot 150 times in a row?) Switching to the PD firing pin bumped the pencil test up 23% to 19" and I'm hoping that's enough to slay anything I load into the gun. I'm shooting 200 of those same rounds tonight. Edited January 5, 2017 by MemphisMechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryridesmotox Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Your going to decock 200 times??? I am trying to think of an alternative... like messing with the disconnector or something... My mind is coming up empty though right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Hey i figured if you were bored and all. I'm a metrics guy. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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