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Shooting production, should I switch to limited minor?


bsand

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Recently picked up a Cz shadow custom, and the 18 round magazines. I'm thinking of shooting limited to make use of my 18 round magazines which can squeeze 19 in.

Would this be a worthwhile thing to do? Or should I keep shooting production a bit longer.

I've heard it's easier to move up in limited vs production, as there are more limited shooters than production shooters.

Thanks

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Which division is more popular depends on region. Locally those two switch back and forth as the most popular division depending on who happens to make it to that particular match.

The CZ is vastly more competitive in production than in Limited. All minor (9mm) guns are. 

Theres is a reason all the 17-19 round 9mm guns are found in Production, and that Limited is dominated by .40 caliber wide-body 1911 platform guns.

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37 minutes ago, bsand said:

 

Recently picked up a Cz shadow custom, and the 18 round magazines. I'm thinking of shooting limited to make use of my 18 round magazines which can squeeze 19 in.

Would this be a worthwhile thing to do? Or should I keep shooting production a bit longer.

I've heard it's easier to move up in limited vs production, as there are more limited shooters than production shooters.

Thanks

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That's up to you, and however shooting limited minor fits into your overall plan or goals for USPSA.

 

If you are wanting to be the next Rob Leatham, then you might want to buy an STI/SVI 2011 in .40.

 

If you are out just to have fun and avoid doing mag changes after each array, basically, then yes shoot limited minor with the equipment you already have.

This topic has been brought up before.  I haven't tried doing any searches since the forum switched over to the new format.  You might want to look for those threads.

If you are shooting a lot of A's, then what does it matter.

 

Somebody will be along shortly to describe some hypothetical stage scenario where you shot X amount of A's, B's, C's, and D's with a limited major gun versus if you shot limited minor and you earned Y points instead.

 

Last I checked, no one was winning a brand new pick up truck at any of these matches even the majors including nationals.

My advice...want to get better...stop shooting a match every weekend.  Shoot one match a month and dry fire and live fire to replace those other matches you would have shot at.

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57 minutes ago, bsand said:

1.   I'm thinking of shooting limited to make use of my 18 round magazines .

      Or should I keep shooting production.

2.  I've heard it's easier to move up in limited vs production, as there are more limited shooters than production shooters.

1.  Whichever you feel is better for you.  Why not give limited a try, and see if you enjoy it ...  you can always go back to Production.  But, as Memphis mentioned above, you will

      be at a slight disadvantage against larger mag STI's shooting Major instead of Minor.   BUT< it is fun - that's why I shot Limited with a 15 round mag and 9mm Minor loads.   No,

      it wasn't "competitive", but it was a lot of fun.    :bow:

2.  It isn't any easier to "move up" anywhere.  You still have to learn to hit the target quickly and move even more quickly.    :) 

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Hm yeah, the last match I shot on Sunday, had 9 in limited but only 3 in production in which I was first but 24/30 overall. I'm in area 1, NW section.

I may try shooting in limited just for the hell of it. Probably will stick with production for now tho.
Thanks

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My time was 176.98 I totally messed up the classifier, thought I knocked both steel and the smaller one blended in with the snow background, HF was 1.7 I think?
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My advice...want to get better...stop shooting a match every weekend.  Shoot one match a month and dry fire and live fire to replace those other matches you would have shot at.




This^^^^^^^^

Read Anderson and Stoeger books about dry fire



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Yeah last match I had a bit under 3 minutes. I dry fire at least 5 days a week for a half hour or so each time. I have one uspsa match a month, and 1 steel challenge match, then usually bowling pins and conceal carry (idpa style) that I shoot with a Glock 26.

I've been working on turn/draw and dry firing as well as draw and fire. I'm able to beat 1.5s par on draw and fire dry twice. and so far best draw and fire twice with alphas live was 1.53.

I've been able to get in the 2.5-2.8 for turn draw and fire two into alphas and consistently beat 2.5 par on dry fire at 10 yards. I recently got back range access so now I can practice live fire drawing from a holster at my range.

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If mostly #1 then i'd advise staying in Prod vs shooting Lim-minor to work on a higher classification. If mostly #2 then you might give more thought to shooting Lim-minor.

As others have said, more times than not if the division allows both maj and minor then you should shot maj if at all possible. It doesn't matter that A's are worth the same, it matters what your mistakes are worth. Your errors earn you more points with major scoring.

And to your example specifically, yes you have 18 rounds of 9mm in your gun but I have 21 in my Tac Sport. So you start behind in capacity and scoring.

I vote put your time and effort into doing well with a Production set up/focus.

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I would agree with several here. If you want to compete and gain in class and local rank, with the CZ in 9mm then stay production. If you just want a more enjoyable match experience I say shoot in limited minor. I spent my first couple years in production and found myself occasionally shooting a local in limited cause I enjoyed the freedom of 20 rounds in the gun. I actually think it's been easier moving up in production than other divisions I've tried. Limited and open have some serious HHF and shooting minor has totally handicapped me when getting classified in limited.

All this being said, if locally you have a huge contingent of one division vs the other, I'd shoot that division. I'd rather compete against 15 production shooters than 2 limited, or otherwise.


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The obvious answer to getting gooder is... try to crush all the Limited Bs if you're a Production B, while shooting Production.

Dont let the division differences be an excuse. Yes you have to really crush your stages, but the challenge is fun

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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The obvious answer to getting gooder is... try to crush all the Limited Bs if you're a Production B, while shooting Production.

Dont let the division differences be an excuse. Yes you have to really crush your stages, but the challenge is fun

Luckily I got a shooting buddy who made the switch to a STI limited, we have been pretty close in rankings. My goal now is to beat him in our monthly matches. I'll continue to shoot production.

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You will more than likely move up in classification percentage as you move up in local match overall placement, although there are most certainly classifier specialist as well as sandbaggers out there. One thing I noticed, you said there were 3 production shooters and 9 limited shooters, but 30 shooters total? That is a lot of Open, SS or PCC relatively speaking. Maybe find a different match that attracts more Production and Limited shooters?

If you really want to improve, practice is where its at. But lets face it, solo dry fire and even live fire practice can get boring. Find someone to practice with that you can feed off of. Your practice partner doesn't necessarily have to be better than you, though it helps. Having someone competent to analyze your movements and techniques in practice, offer constructive criticisms and ideas, and generally push you is going to make practicing more fun and productive. If you really want to move up quick, take a class from a known instructor. It will be cheaper in the long run than anything else you will do.

When you shoot matches, squad up with A, M, or GM talent. Watch what they do, and ask for advice and critiques. Discuss stage plans, and when you see something that makes you go 'huh?' ask what they were thinking or saw that made them shoot the way they did. Some people shoot matches for fun and for a social activity, some people shoot them to be competitive (those are generally the A, M, and GM shooters). You don't need to reinvent the wheel, the cool kids are usually more than happy to show you how they got there, and if you wind up being as passionate and dedicated, they will more than likely work and practice with you as well.

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yep there were 9 open and 7 ppc. The open guys all had sponsored shirts on. I was squadded with a bunch of GM's and M's last match, everyone was quite helpful. Especially a GM in open who was also a gm in production.

The crappy thing is I work until 4:30 which means it's basically dark when I get home. I'm going to have to wait until it gets light longer to practice with my shooting buddies.

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Well, it was kinda crappy, watching the open shooters shoot. As I kept trying to match their speed and such. But boy was it ever awesome watching them shoot. Like stages done in 5 seconds 20 rounds.

They had good tips too.

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13 minutes ago, bsand said:

Well, it was kinda crappy, watching the open shooters shoot. As I kept trying to match their speed

The  BIGGEST  mistake you can make (don't ask me how I know) is to try to match the

speed of a M or GM Open Shooter ...    :rolleyes:

You can shoot only as quickly as you can see the sights settle on the target, and pull

the trigger so the gun doesn't move.

But, it really is fun to watch those guys shoot, isn't it?   We have one guy locally who

sounds like a submachine gun - fantastic to watch him.   (He does miss, by the way).

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That was one of the tips I was given lol. Then he also helped me work thru my stage planning for reloads and such.

Looking at my stage videos (only had 2 recorded) I'm barley moving lol. But Inmy defense it was really snowy/icy, and I didn't want to fall or DQ.

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Yep, you are going to have to learn to ignore the sound of fast shooting from other people. Otherwise you will place a value on 'Bap, Bap, Bap, Bap' and try and duplicate the sound without regard to hitting anything in particular. What you need to learn to duplicate is how efficiently the cool kids do everything that is not pulling the trigger (transitions, movement, reloads, efficient stage plans). Also, think smaller goals, that are easier to obtain. Pick out a mid pack B class production or single stack shooter and put a bullseye on him. Once you can consistently beat his performance, move your goal to an A class shooter, or maybe a B class open shooter. The point is if you try to compare your performances to GM open and pcc shooters you will probably get frustrated really quick as it will be hard to see any meaningful gains. Small steps.

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Not to totally derail this thread...I have been away from shooting matches for a while, and I know USPSA got a new president.  

 

Has USPSA HQ gotten any better... more transparent as to how the high hit factors are derived?

 

Are they actually published or publicly posted now?

 

I am assuming there are still two classifier calculator websites out there.

 

Some match directors will make it known maybe out for a whole year or shooting season what the classifier stage is going to be at each of their monthly matches.  If you are so inclined, you could practice them ahead of time.  Also, some match directors will allow classifier reshoots.

 

As somebody else mentioned up above, get the Steve Andersen dry fire books.  IIRC, there are two books.  In one book, he lists about 2 pages of common newb mistakes.  That alone is worth the price of the books.

 

I don't know anything about the Ben Stoeger books and videos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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