9x45 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Sarge, it does go against USPSA Rules. A shooter does not have to be a member to shoot a Level 1 match. Wonder what USPSA would say if one of these guys told them they had to get a "card" before being allowed to shoot a sanctioned USPSA Level 1 match? Now the range could make up their own extra rules and require that (not in a USPSA format), but not the host club because they have agreed to operate by the USPSA rules. Sounds bogus to me. 6.4 Competitor Status and Credentials 6.4.1 All competitors must be individual members of USPSA, or a current member of their IPSC region, for Level II and above competitions. A competitor who submits a paid USPSA membership application to the Match Director or presents proof of online registration and payment as a new member prior to entering the competition is considered a member for the purpose of this rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopaka Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 This is what I got upon completing the "intro class". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopaka Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 This is the back side of the card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopaka Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 9x45, a picture is worth a 1,000 words. I uploaded two pics of my card. I used the term IPSC in error. Blame it on me being a Newb, should have said USPSA. It is interesting that Sarge pulled a quote from someone Gary Wall worked with, He is the prime guy at Marysville Rifle Club (WA) who is helping me. Our club is sufferring from encroachment of housing built up right next to our fence, As a former e-board member of that club, keeping all rounds on range is a heavily emphasized. VR, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x45 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Chop, I've never seen anything like that since I started USPSA way back in 1985 (before that it actually was IPSC, 1975). It looks kinda like a intro to USPSA match thing. Our clubs do a 4 hour class for that, but you don't get a card or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, 9x45 said: Chop, I've never seen anything like that since I started USPSA way back in 1985 (before that it actually was IPSC, 1975). It looks kinda like a intro to USPSA match thing. Our clubs do a 4 hour class for that, but you don't get a card or anything. Sure looks "official" but must be very old. Still goes against the basic premise that you don't need it to shoot a match. There are intro clinics etc around here too but they are not required. Anybody shows up they get to shoot. If they admit to being new they get a 20 minute orientation and shoot under the watchful eye of a mentor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopaka Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Well, thank you for the input guys. based upon what you-all have said, I will won't let my preconceived ideas hold me back any longer. VR, Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Sarge said: Sure looks "official" but must be very old. Still goes against the basic premise that you don't need it to shoot a match. There are intro clinics etc around here too but they are not required. Anybody shows up they get to shoot. If they admit to being new they get a 20 minute orientation and shoot under the watchful eye of a mentor. Sarge, the date on the card says 5/17/09...so, not so old. I have never seen anything like that either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) it is a NW section requirement to get a safety check before going to a match. its usually about an hour and they give you the jist of uspsa. some places can do it on the day of the match and some places want you to do it before hand. Basically they want to make sure you know what you are doing. i have mine laying around somewhere i have seen people being turned away for not having it. its the MD's call often if they can shoot or not Edited January 16, 2017 by Sandbagger123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Sarge, the date on the card says 5/17/09...so, not so old. I have never seen anything like that either... Sure but the card 19 minutes ago, Sandbagger123 said: it is a NW section requirement to get a safety check before going to a match. its usually about an hour and they give you the jist of uspsa. some places can do it on the day of the match and some places want you to do it before hand. Basically they want to make sure you know what you are doing. i have mine laying around somewhere i have seen people being turned away for not having it. its the MD's call often if they can shoot or not I am copying this and sending it to USPSA. I just can't see this as being permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyBob Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Rio Salado also requires shooters to get a card like that from a safety course. http://www.rsscaz.com/divisions/practical-pistol/pssc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Sarge said: Sure but the card I am copying this and sending it to USPSA. I just can't see this as being permitted. I'm pretty sure it was covered in the Club Manual, under recommendations...... I'm equally certain, that matches are allowed to conduct safety checks, and turn away competitors who are not ready -- and I'm confident that USPSA HQ won't overturn that decision. Most clubs in the Mid-Atlantic section will conduct a new competitor's safety briefing and check the morning of the match. It's rare for people not to pass the safety check portion, but it happens. If it does we happily refund their match fee, provide some coaching, encourage them to watch, to practice, and to come back.... Experienced USPSA and even IDPA competitors are often given a pass, especially if someone can vouch for their safety from having shot with them previously. On the other extreme, I've safety checked a five year USPSA member, who after five years of membership came out to his first match..... He passed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothguy Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 14 hours ago, Chopaka said: 9x45, a picture is worth a 1,000 words. I uploaded two pics of my card. I used the term IPSC in error. Blame it on me being a Newb, should have said USPSA. It is interesting that Sarge pulled a quote from someone Gary Wall worked with, He is the prime guy at Marysville Rifle Club (WA) who is helping me. Our club is sufferring from encroachment of housing built up right next to our fence, As a former e-board member of that club, keeping all rounds on range is a heavily emphasized. VR, Don The card maybe a condition for insurance or at least a way to lower the cost of insurance for the club. Pioneer Gun Club in Kansas City has had the same issues with housing encroachment. The original location was established in 1940 but in the 1980's they had to find a new location due to housing complaints. At the new location complaints started to surface so they got in front of the problem and, with the help of the NRA, started a baffle program. It takes lots of money over many years to accomplish, but necessary depending on the location of the neighbors. The old location is still used but only as a small indoor range. http://www.pioneergunclub.org/ As has been already said, I think the main issues with participation is the cost. Until recently even if you reload, availability of components has been a problem. I'm still having problems locating Federal small pistol primers if I want to shoot revolver. Availability seems to be getting better and I hope with the new political climate, that given some time, things will loosen up more. I think the continued promotion, or bring what you have, of Production is and has been the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Shooting local matches as I've traveled, to places no one knew me, I too have had to "prove" something occasionally before being allowed to shoot as I didn't attend their new shooter brief or was a member of their club and so on. I now just carry my uspsa card with my classifications on it and hope that them seeing "M" and "A" all over it gets me a pass. It always has but some have given me the feeling they still didn't like it that I didn't attend their training and get signed off on it. Back to the question of why is it hard to get people to shoot, here we've had some people come either as what looks like father and son or boyfriend and girlfriend just to watch before they came to shoot a match. They leave and you don't see them come back. I'd love to have an exit interview and truthfully know why they took the time to drive out and watch a match for two hours and then decide it's not for them. A guess I have is that often new people are squadded with people who are really good. You're already nervous, curious, uncomfortable and hyper self aware. Now factor in performance comparison and all the other things like time and cost and it's a hard commitment to make. Kind of makes me think that the times I've seen matches have an "all beginner or new person" squad was a good idea. There is a comfort level in knowing you're not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 hours ago, Nik Habicht said: I'm pretty sure it was covered in the Club Manual, under recommendations...... I'm equally certain, that matches are allowed to conduct safety checks, and turn away competitors who are not ready -- and I'm confident that USPSA HQ won't overturn that decision. Most clubs in the Mid-Atlantic section will conduct a new competitor's safety briefing and check the morning of the match. It's rare for people not to pass the safety check portion, but it happens. If it does we happily refund their match fee, provide some coaching, encourage them to watch, to practice, and to come back.... Experienced USPSA and even IDPA competitors are often given a pass, especially if someone can vouch for their safety from having shot with them previously. On the other extreme, I've safety checked a five year USPSA member, who after five years of membership came out to his first match..... He passed.... Bogus. Sounds like the club up in MI that don't allow D or U shooters to shoot matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbzero Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 I've run into this, and for some reason, have found it easier to get people to try IDPA first, and then USPSA after that. The mentality seems to be that USPSA is intimidating because people shoot faster. I try to explain that USPSA is more fun and, IMHO, easier to start with because there aren't 8 million rules that you constantly have to be thinking of. It doesn't seem to matter though. They see the videos of the slower pace of IDPA and want to start there. Eventually, all of the silly rules frustrate them and they finally give USPSA a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 So, why can't we get more shooters involved? Because maybe we come off as elitists by making them pass our personal qualifications to shoot a match. This makes me not even want to attempt to ever take in a match while traveling the country. I'm not proving myself any further than presenting my USPSA card. And if you come to a match I'm running that same card is your pass to shoot with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 10 hours ago, JimmyBob said: Rio Salado also requires shooters to get a card like that from a safety course. http://www.rsscaz.com/divisions/practical-pistol/pssc/ That certainly doesn't surprise me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 -- and I'm confident that USPSA HQ won't overturn that decision. I hope it would be left alone. Things like this are why we end up with so many non sanctioned "USPSA Style" matches around the country. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 14 hours ago, JimmyBob said: Rio Salado also requires shooters to get a card like that from a safety course. http://www.rsscaz.com/divisions/practical-pistol/pssc/ Wow, according to their web site once one completes the safety course, one should do a whole bunch of other events first (6 of them) multiple times before even considering any USPSA matches. Unclassified shooters are not welcome at all. Talk about discouragement from shooting. USPSA is not that difficult to compete safely. Doing well is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 If I remember correctly, Rio Salado has more "Sharks" than any other club in the Country. It would seem they must be doing something correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 36 minutes ago, L3324 said: I hope it would be left alone. Things like this are why we end up with so many non sanctioned "USPSA Style" matches around the country. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk A match that won't let a card carrying uspsa member shoot without question, should not be sanctioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, Steve RA said: If I remember correctly, Rio Salado has more "Sharks" than any other club in the Country. It would seem they must be doing something correctly. Isn't it near Phoenix where the weather is perfect and basically considered a shooters mecca? As far as I know a shooter can shoot USPSA nationals without going through that nonsense! Something's not right..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Yes, that is the location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsand Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Sure looks "official" but must be very old. Still goes against the basic premise that you don't need it to shoot a match. There are intro clinics etc around here too but they are not required. Anybody shows up they get to shoot. If they admit to being new they get a 20 minute orientation and shoot under the watchful eye of a mentor. I got me one of those in order to shoot uspsa and concealed carry matches at my club. 75$, 120 rounds and under 2 hours of my time in October 2016. First match was free too, the course was put on by the club's president. It was worth it, as with that card I am now able to shoot in the action bays at my club and draw from a holster for steel challenges. Shooting IPSC in Canada is a BS experience, cause I'm Canadian living in USA they want me to take their 300$ 2 day 500 round course! It's called the black badge. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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