3 gun target scenario

[atomicferret]

what would you think if you attended a match with the following situation?

A portion of the stage has optional shotgun/pistol targets.  lets say 6 knockdown plates and 6 poppers.  The poppers have been set so that a solid hit from the shotgun will knock it over.  You can choose to shoot it with your 9mm pistol, but it might take two or three hits in quick succession.  A larger caliber pistol would have a better chance knocking over the targets with less rounds. 

I see this as essentially making it advantageous to use a higher power factor/ or bigger gun. Yet, I don't think I have ever shot a match that would set a stage like this. 

Let's assume that you know this is the way some targets are going to be set up on at least half of the stages.  would you choose different guns for the match than normal?

 

What do you think?  is this inherently unfair in some way?  how so? 

[RJH]

People will cry, but I like the idea. 

[TonytheTiger]

I shot a shotgun/pistol stage last summer that had a spinner and a death star in it. You had to engage one with a pistol and the other with the shotgun. The spinner was almost too heavy to spin with an average 9mm load but the death star was also very fast and a difficult pistol challenge. I liked it and no one on my squad complained since we all had to make the same choices based on our skill sets. No one saw it as unfair, even though a couple USPSA  shooters had a significant advantage with their 40 major loads.  I guess there was plenty of wining on other squads though.

Edited December 20, 2016 by TonytheTiger

[davsco]

might be nice if the MD, when advertising the match, let folks know there would be some steel not calibrated for 9 minor.  but other than that, with choices as to what to use, can't see any issues.

[StealthyBlagga]

We have done this in our matches as a way of bucking the "pistol always trumps shotgun" established wisdom. Totally legitimate IMHO so long as it is made clear in the WSB. The freedom to do this kind of thing is one of the advantages of outlaw rules (no USPSA range-lawyering). However, bear in mind that a major caliber may not necessarily help much depending on the targets... sometimes timing will be more important than power factor. Heavy-set poppers may require multiple quick hits to push them back, rather than fewer heavy hits (where the popper can rock back forward each time). I suggest you watch how preceding shooters fare, and be prepared to go with the shotgun if your handgun is not looking like a good option.

[blu46and2]

If they are shotgun optional would there be any reason that you couldn't use buckshot on them?

[atomicferret]

3 minutes ago, blu46and2 said:

If they are shotgun optional would there be any reason that you couldn't use buckshot on them?

Only  that some ranges restrict shot size due to range concerns. 

 

My whole motivation behind this kind of stage design was to find a way to make buckshot relevant to 3 gun. 

[blu46and2]

I enjoy shooting buckshot in 3-gun matches, for a few targets, a large all buckshot stage can get expensive pretty quick.  I wish more matches incorporated buckshot into their stage design.  There's always the option of putting up a couple paper targets where buckshot is required, really not that different than a pistol round, at the ranges that have ammo size restrictions.  Good luck!

[StealthyBlagga]

2 hours ago, atomicferret said:

My whole motivation behind this kind of stage design was to find a way to make buckshot relevant to 3 gun. 

We run buckshot stages several times a year in our club matches, and most years at SMM3G. Usually we mix HEAVY falling steel and paper movers (swingers, turners etc.). You can mandate it to be a buckshot stage (no birdshot allowed). We actually require the use of 00-buck only (for 12ga anyway... 20ga has to be #3 buck due to availability) to minimize the number of holes that need to be patched on the paper - 9 holes is better than the 24+ you would get with #4 buck 12ga for example. Minimum safe distance is the same as for pistol ammo, but be aware that thinner poppers could get bent more quickly from full-pattern full-power buckshot hits.

DO IT - Buckshot Rocks 

[Bright]

I shoot a G34 in production when I shoot USPSA.  I can't shoot limited without being penalized for it.  It's a rule I had to either accept and drop points or move to production.  When I debated this with a buddy that has 4k tied up into his limited gun he concluded that I should stop complaining and spend the money to play at his level or move to production.  Id like to return that mentality here.  It's 3 gun, not USPSA limited.  It's my happy place were I can load up my mags and go fast without any penalty because I'm not shooting another guy's favorite round. 

That said, I guess if shooters know the target will not fall for a 9 that makes it better... I guess.  Otherwise I'm the first shooter up smacking targets that wont fall and calling for calibration while the rest of the squad loads high brass birdshot.  If you want guys shooting shotgun more just put a clay in a position that will force them to engage that target and most likely other targets as well.  

[ziebart]

Publish these things beforehand and it is not much of an issue.  People can prepare for them then. Making people wait till after they watch someone else shoot just screwed over the first competitor. If I go on a hunting trip I need to know the game to bring the appropriate ammo. I don't take a 308 squirrel hunting, and I don't bring a 22 deer hunting.

[Todd7446]

As a guy who uses the same pistol and ammo for both USPSA and 3-gun (174PF), I'm all in favor of it!