Rule 6.4.4 Barred from participating in a USPSA match

[NewLimitedShooter]

A competitor that was not scoring or running the clock told shooters:

"You F..ing  A**holes that are walking the stage, instead of walking the stage Go F...  tape some targets"

Would this be viewed as disruptive and should this person get a procedural for Unsportsmanlike conduct?

ADDED 12/20/16 9:45AM  - Additional Information:
The person with the temper was not the next shooter. 

It was said to a few shooters that were directed NOT to tape by the ROs as the scoring device was temporarily inoperable.

This person was not acting as an RO and regularly does this type of thing. 

Many new shooters have left the range and refuse to come back due to it.

There have been numerous complaints about this person regarding the same issue.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by NewLimitedShooter

[seadog_99]

Sounds like my hero.


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[seadog_99]

By "disruptive" do you mean "causing the match to run smoothly and quickly"? Maybe just ask the competitor to be nicer when calling out the lazy shooters?

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[jkrispies]

28 minutes ago, seadog_99 said:

By "disruptive" do you mean "causing the match to run smoothly and quickly"? Maybe just ask the competitor to be nicer when calling out the lazy shooters?

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One of my golden rules tha t I teach my own children is "never argue with a man with a gun."   Paerhaps the "gentleman" could simultaneously be reminded that we REALLY don't want to start throwing personal insults at a firing range... no matter how well founded they may be...

Clearly the same result could have been had without the profanity and insulting names.  As far as kicking him out for it, I think the level of disruption should be taken into account.  In other words, was he given a warning and did it repeatedly afterwards, did it start or nearly start a fight, was there already plenty of tapers and he was doing it just to be an attention whore, etc.  

[StealthyBlagga]

I think 6.4.4/6.4.5 are intended to PERMANENTLY disbar an individual who has demonstrated a persistent inability to participate safely or play well with others.

The most applicable rule would be 10.6.1 (or 10.6.2 if not a competitor):

10.6.1 Competitors will be disqualified from a match for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unsportsmanlike. Examples of unsports-manlike conduct include, but are not limited to, cheating, dishonesty, failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, or any behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute. The Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.

10.6.2 Other persons may be expelled from the range for conduct which a Range Officer deems to be unacceptable. Examples of unacceptable conduct include, but are not limited to, failing to comply with the reasonable directions of a Match Official, interference with the operation of a course of fire and/or a competitor’s attempt thereof, and any other behavior likely to bring the sport into disrepute.

However, I would expect the occasional dropping of the F-Bomb would more appropriately be addressed by a quiet word from the MD/RM ("hey, I appreciate your enthusiasm for efficient stage reset, but please remember this is a family sport with women and kids here"). Anyone can allow their mouth to get away from them from time to time - no need to make a Federal case out of it. We sure as hell don't need ANOTHER rule for it.

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by StealthyBlagga

[Sarge]

I would have done two things as RO OR MD.

1. Thank him for pointing out that everybody should be helping out at a Match to some degree.

2. Warned him that he needs to be more polite about it or possibly face 10.6.1.

Usually a simple, "you all really need to be resetting the stage just like everybody else", works for most slackers.

 

[NewLimitedShooter]

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

 

 

[Sarge]

14 minutes ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

 

 

No, it would be edited.

Nothing would come of it because if it got said to the top shooters, most likely a top shooter said it.

[jester121]

7 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Nothing would come of it because if it got said to the top shooters, most likely a top shooter said it.

Or an RO.

(I keed, I keed....)

[Rangerdug]

A competitor that was not scoring or running the clock told shooters:

"You F..ing  A**holes that are walking the stage, instead of walking the stage Go F...  tape some targets"

Would this be viewed as disruptive and should this person get a procedural for Unsportsmanlike conduct?

We're looking for options here that aren't so severe.

Is there another rule besides 6.4.4 that fits the issue a little better?

 

6.4.4 An individual may be barred from participating in a USPSA match, at the match director’s discretion, if the person:

a. has demonstrated an inability to safely complete courses of fire, or

b. has demonstrated behavior which would or may disrupt the match, or which would bring disrepute to the sport.

6.4.5 A Match Director enforcing Rule 6.4.4 must submit a detailed report to USPSA within seven days of the occurrence.

I think you're mind is made up. I wouldn't worry about the ESPN scenario, tapping isn't that exciting to warrant a live broadcast.
I am guessing you were one of the offended. I would also assume that this wasn't the first stage... and his frustration had been building to the point he popped.
If you were one of those people he targeted, I would reflect on yourself first, instead of looking for rules to justify embarrassment.
I guarantee that his statement obviously offended some, but I guarantee that people started taping.
If that was the case, good on him!


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[seadog_99]

I think you're mind is made up. I wouldn't worry about the ESPN scenario, tapping isn't that exciting to warrant a live broadcast.
I am guessing you were one of the offended. I would also assume that this wasn't the first stage... and his frustration had been building to the point he popped.
If you were one of those people he targeted, I would reflect on yourself first, instead of looking for rules to justify embarrassment.
I guarantee that his statement obviously offended some, but I guarantee that people started taping.
If that was the case, good on him!


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Boom.


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[Nathanb]

I'd probably offer to pay his match fee for saying what the rest of us are thinking. 

[Gary Stevens]

Actually the "super squads" are the easiest to run. Peer pressure, at that level, works well.

[RJH]

Maybe use that 6.4.4 for those f****rs that were not taping:-)  As for the guy who told them to get to work, I would squad with him anytime. 

[jkrispies]

2 hours ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

 

 

LOL!  I don't know what would be more fun to watch-- our matches broadcast on ESPN, or the look on everybody's faces after some C level shooter chewed out the super squad and everybody turned to look at him and were all, "Um, dude, uh... yeah, never mind...  He's not in my squad."

[Southpaw]

5 hours ago, seadog_99 said:

Sounds like my hero.

Seriously.  If anyone deserves a procedural it's the guys who weren't helping reset...

4 hours ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

USPSA on ESPN?

[ktm300]

9 hours ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

 

 

You are going to find that this group isn't very sympathetic to people that don't paste and help set stages.  We don't get our panties in a wad about some foul language unless it's around kids.  We don't have to worry about ESPN anytime soon.

Ask the guy nicely to watch his language and start pasting.

 

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Just tell the guy, "Thanks for the help but watch your effing language"

[Prov1x]

13 hours ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

A competitor that was not scoring or running the clock told shooters:

"You F..ing  A**holes that are walking the stage, instead of walking the stage Go F...  tape some targets"

Would this be viewed as disruptive and should this person get a procedural for Unsportsmanlike conduct?

We're looking for options here that aren't so severe.

Is there another rule besides 6.4.4 that fits the issue a little better?

 

6.4.4 An individual may be barred from participating in a USPSA match, at the match director’s discretion, if the person:

 

a. has demonstrated an inability to safely complete courses of fire, or

 

b. has demonstrated behavior which would or may disrupt the match, or which would bring disrepute to the sport.

 

6.4.5 A Match Director enforcing Rule 6.4.4 must submit a detailed report to USPSA within seven days of the occurrence.

 

Depends, what was the shooter doing when he told the rest of you to go tape?

If he wasn't the next shooter, the score keeper or r.o. then I'd tell him that I was waiting on him to lead the way or go f'himself. If he was the next shooter and people were walking the stage in front of him, then it was justified.

So what was he doing? 

[laz2011]

11 hours ago, Rangerdug said:

I think you're mind is made up. I wouldn't worry about the ESPN scenario, tapping isn't that exciting to warrant a live broadcast.
I am guessing you were one of the offended. I would also assume that this wasn't the first stage... and his frustration had been building to the point he popped.
If you were one of those people he targeted, I would reflect on yourself first, instead of looking for rules to justify embarrassment.
I guarantee that his statement obviously offended some, but I guarantee that people started taping.
If that was the case, good on him!


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I agree if he was the next shooter he should speak up . Maybe because a little more diplomatic in  his wording . 

But I also I the question was this the first stage of the match he went of on or the 2nd or 3rd , and was this shooter pulling his own weight during the match ? 

Laszlo 

[peterthefish]

I agree if he was the next shooter he should speak up . Maybe because a little more diplomatic in  his wording . 

But I also I the question was this the first stage of the match he went of on or the 2nd or 3rd , and was this shooter pulling his own weight during the match ? 

Laszlo 

I've never seen a shooter who isn't pulling his own weight speak up and encourage others to tape.

Most folks who reset are too busy resetting to notice that someone or someone's aren't carrying their weight - at least for a little bit.

While I prefer levity ("Just so you know I'm / we're not getting paid to reset / tape") I don't find fault with using foul language to get the job done if the audience is appropriate.

My favorite passive aggressive approach is to stop pasting before the run of folks who are not doing any reset. As I'm usually up resetting after every run (usually with the same small group) if a few people take the same approach the lazy guy(s) generally gets the idea pretty quickly.

[SCTaylor]

I see nothing wrong with what he did, maybe tone the language down but some people need that kind of message.

 

To tell on myself, I was 2 seconds away from yelling at two guys who had already shot to get the F' off my stage. They were walking and talking about how they did while I was in the box waiting for my stage to start. They were open shooters, go figure. Haha.

[ATLDave]

14 hours ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

 

 

LOL!  They mike up the guys in the NFL and have to bleep stuff like that constantly.  

  

 

[gerritm]

Guessing by your name and number of posts you are fairly new to USPSA? Get used to it. I have lost my temper several times when we have a 10 man squad and I realize the only 2 people taping/resetting are myself and my son. But I am a little more subtle, when we finish I will tell the RO to get on their case. If that doesn't work, which it rarely does I use the words of a very good MD where we shoot.

"Shooting at this match is optional"

"Resetting the stages is not".

Seems to work for at least one stage.

gerritm

[rowdyb]

16 hours ago, NewLimitedShooter said:

What if this happened at a National Championship match directed at all of the top shooters in front of the match director and was broadcast on ESPN?

What would happen then?  Would it be tolerated?

 

 

if it was the NFL it would be tolerated, totally.

Calling out people for being selfish is totally fine in my book. Would I personally prefer it without the "F word" yeah, but I'm not gonna get wound up at it either, especially when it's directed at a group. Make it personal and then a line has been crossed with that word.

Handful of times at sectionals to nationals I found myself the only one down range resetting. That's when I decide to move at a glacial pace and smile at the RO. He get's the picture and whips the squad into shape.