PCC Speed Reloads - How fast?

[Flatland Shooter]

I'm trying to get a lot of quality practice on the PCC before the 2017 season.  The skill that needs the most improvement is reloading on the clock.  Coming from a long background in Open/Unlimited, I know what a good reload feels like, but my PCC (Glock magazine based) reloads feel like molasses.

I've watched some YouTube videos competitors have posted to see if there is some secret move I'm missing, but I'm just real dang slow.

So how about others out there?  From shot to reload to shot what kind of times are expected?

And if you've discovered that "secret move", please share it.

Bill

 

 

 

[Dannybot]

Don't know if it would help with the Glock pattern, but I have found on the Colt pattern if I bring the gun down to the magazine it goes in easier because the alignment seems a bit straighter. 

[Rangerdug]

The issue is not that it is slow, it is that guys are not practicing. But it will be a bit slower as compensate for the extra distances that have to be covered from support hand starting place to replacement. Compared to a pistol where your hands start together and finish together.


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[GJM]

I think the issue is part practice and part equipment.

On the JP GMR-13, for example, the mag release is flat and stiff. I just added an Odin Works extended release, but previously I needed my support hand on the fore end pushing right to reliably release the magazine. That obviously slows things down. Also, the mag well on the JP is fairly small, and does not appear to be optimized for Glock magazines. 

On the MPX, the mag release button is much better and the mag well is designed around the MPX magazines. Here is a picture comparing the MPX and JP mag wells. 

[Les Snyder]

the front of the receiver cut on my NFA Glock lower is slanted at the same angle as needed to insert the magazine, and I use it for a reference .... I use Glock pistol magazines out of kydex double pouches that are in the same belt position as my pistol set up has been for 30 years...I typically down load a couple of rounds or so to make it easier to lock the mag in place...I shoot an A1 stock, bring it off my shoulder and trap it under my arm, slightly rolling it to make "looking" the mag into the well easier

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I know I have to practice my reloads with the Colt style mags with the Hahn insert. They do drop like a stone but I need to see what works better for me on the mag insertion. I think the Glock lowers are a little slower on the mag drop because of the angle but may be faster to reload because of the angle. I will know more on that when I get a dedicated Glock lower. So far the Mech Tech is the fastest for reloads for me as you would expect. I can see magwells coming along for the PCC's in the future. Thanks, Eric

[Flatland Shooter]

6 hours ago, Les Snyder said:

......I shoot an A1 stock, bring it off my shoulder and trap it under my arm, slightly rolling it to make "looking" the mag into the well easier

That's pretty much what I'm doing now but I'm trying to perfect a reload where I do not remove the stock from my shoulder.   I also tried placing the magazine pouches on my strong side and reloading with my strong hand.  That had potential but even when done right, it will never be as fast as reloading with your support hand.

The addition of Dawson basepads on 17 rd magazines gives me a little more real estate to grab and seems to help.  I've not tried the "bullets up" in the magazine pouch but will give it a try.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Bill

 

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Flatland Shooter

[StealthyBlagga]

1) Down-load the reload magazine as much as you can to minimize resistance to the last 1/4" of insertion.

2) Make sure you have some extra-capacity mags that run 100% so you never have to reload except when mandated.

[rowdyb]

2.0 seconds, shot to shot at an open 10 yard target. That's my consistent PCC reload.

[photoracer]

Not sure what my speed is but I developed this early in the year. Made a molle vest with 3 5.11 MP-5 mag pouches. When it goes dry (which I usually avoid by semi-counting) I hit the release button the same time I pull a mag from a pouch on my chest area, then roll the rifle over till the mag opening is horizontal and shove it in. Then roll it back while grabbing the handguard if I don't have to charge it and charging it if I do. Charging it adds about .5s I think.

What I mean by semi counting is its hard to count to 30-35 under fire like I usually do for 20-25 rd. pistol mags. So instead I count misses and before the stage starts I see where my 0 miss point is for a reload (assuming there is no area that has no shots I can do a reload in) and I count backwards in the targets 1-5 and remember those targets. So when shooting I count misses and keep that in the back of my mind so when I get to the target that corresponds to the number I do a reload if I have to keep shooting. I have found I can shoot the PCC on the move at least as good as the pistol. Was not really sure of that till I tried it in a Peacemaker Super Steel match this year.

[Odessa Straight]

On 12/18/2016 at 6:16 PM, rowdyb said:

2.0 seconds, shot to shot at an open 10 yard target. That's my consistent PCC reload.

That's a smoking fast PCC reload, rowdyb.  If you're consistent at 2 flat you probably even have some at 1.5.  I'm not even close to that with between an inconsistent 3.5 and 4 seconds.

Can you elaborate?  Like ..stock kept shouldered or in armpit or crook of arm;  mag pouch location?  I think I remember you shoot a SIG.  If you ever make a video of your reload please post it here. 

[rowdyb]

It feels glacial. I've done some in the 1.8 range and a lot in the 2.3 range.

Frankly there is no special trick and I do almost essentially the same thing as a pistol reload.

right hand initiates mag drop. left hand moves rapidly to new mag. gun comes down a little and cants magwell opening to where new mag is coming from. beer can grip new mag into gun hard. roll out to remount gun and left hand back to support position on fore end.

what sped me up was 1. doing it slow and finding my mechanics for my body and gun.learning slowly the mechanics for all the different reload options and picking the one i thought i could do most consistently. 2. getting a good position for my pouch and the mag. 3. determining what grip on the new mag i was going to use and sticking with it. 4. doing the seat of the new mag super hard and trusting that, not doing a verification tug. chancy, yes, but also faster. 5. finding my reference points on the gun. getting my cheek weld, eye position, stock on shoulder, forward hand dialed. being able to be consistent in going to the same place for all those things.

just like in my article in front sight a few months ago, reference meaning know times and distances, reference meaning your spatial relations, repeatability so what you can do consistently good vs a one-of and repetition. you gotta do a lot of reps.

funnily enough i just sold my pcc package here on the enos classifieds. i could show you with a regular AR if you wish,  but that's not really the same.

[Odessa Straight]

rowdyb , If consistent 2 flat reloads with PCC feels glacial then I and everyone I've shoot PCC with (except for one guy) are deep frozen in an Ice Age    I have been on the same squad with a Master in PCC and his reloads are smooth and look about 2 seconds, but most of us are 3+.  I'm set up with standard PSA AR 9mm using Colt type mags (10 mags and all are 32 rounds).  If I stick with those long mags I should give that "beer can" grasp some dry fire time.  The pistol reload method of heel on base plate and index finger along the line of bullets aren't working very well for me as those mags are so very long.  Most of my "glacial" time seems to be with the actual mag insertion and seating.  I'm also thinking about trying shorter mags for the reload and sticking with the palm and finger method like for my pistols.  I know you're correct in that you pick a method and then lots and lots of reps.

I thought I read you had two identical MPX carbines that you were really pleased.  You sold them?  May be that was someone else.  I haven't read the classified page in a long time as doing that puts my checking account in grave danger. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I did some practice reloads on the clock today. With a Hahn magwell insert and Metalform 20 round mags with TTI base pads I could get just under 3 second reloads. I found the beer can reload was fastest and bullets either facing back on my belt or straight out was faster than bullets forward. I have some new mag pouches coming to help with the reloads. I was keeping the stock on the shoulder and dropping the gun down on the magazine just a little. Mags are not fully loaded to 26 rounds just 22. Thanks, Eric

[rowdyb]

i could be remembering my principal digit incorrectly as well. that would be sad if i was..... dang lead poisoning. none the less, i will borrow a rig next time and try it and see if I'm retarded or actually was quick. i definitely remember going, "well i'll never see a sub 1.50 second reload with this gun...."

so hold off patting me on the back until i double check myself.

and like eric, bullets to the rear, beer can, good height on my hip and all that felt the best and yielded the best times.

no, i have never had a sig mpx. let alone two. i sold my cz scorpion recently.

EDIT: so i went out in the garage and was doing it with a regular 556 AR gun using a similar style belt mag pouch, a kydex one from CompTac. Dry fire ( i know, i know) I was making the 2.30 par time just fine after just about 6 reps at it. Now I gotta go shoot it I guess, but again, it will be with a regular rifle, not the pcc..... Sorry.

And going through the few pcc match videos or practice sessions of me, i can't find a decent reload to show.

Edited December 22, 2016 by rowdyb

[Rangerdug]

1.6 is my fastest, consistently I am at 1.8-2.0. I start the reload with movement of grabbing the mag off the belt then release the button. With MPX I have to keep the gun shouldered. It prevents the mag from binding when it is falling free. With an AR mag change, I turn the gun to assist gravity and help with the feed.
The Beer Can grip is a must !


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[Manwithnoname]

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but I'm consistently get under 1 second in dry fire. I'm using a safariland 771 mag pouch and brass Taylor freelance mag extensions. I set the timer on random start, aim in with finger on dead trigger, hear beep, grab mag just like i do with my limited gun, using index finger along front of mag, drop mag while I'm grabbing my new mag like limited reload, unshoulder and hold gun up in front of face slightly angled like I would limited reload, look at magwell then shove that baby in, then reshoulder and acquire A zone. Only thing I'm doing differently from my pistol reload is putting the mag 3 or 4" forward in the magwell. I'll try to get a video. I'm using a DDLES (Quarter Cirlce 10 lower). 

[Manwithnoname]

Have vid. Tried uploading here but the file is too large. Trying to get it on YouTube but it's not working well. If anyone has an idea on how to upload, please let me know. 

Thanks 

[ncrivello]

7 hours ago, Manwithnoname said:

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong but I'm consistently get under 1 second in dry fire. I'm using a safariland 771 mag pouch and brass Taylor freelance mag extensions. I set the timer on random start, aim in with finger on dead trigger, hear beep, grab mag just like i do with my limited gun, using index finger along front of mag, drop mag while I'm grabbing my new mag like limited reload, unshoulder and hold gun up in front of face slightly angled like I would limited reload, look at magwell then shove that baby in, then reshoulder and acquire A zone. Only thing I'm doing differently from my pistol reload is putting the mag 3 or 4" forward in the magwell. I'll try to get a video. I'm using a DDLES (Quarter Cirlce 10 lower). 

I'd like to see this 1 sec reload.

Was just fooling around with my new X95 Tavor.  Whoever said reloads were a pain is full of it....  on the clock, shot to shot (dry fire) and releasing bolt can be done consistently in ~2.0 sec without much effort.  You don't even have to break your cheek weld to do so.

Hope to land a 9mm kit for it so I can play in PCC.  

 

 

 

[rowdyb]

a 9mm tavor in pcc would be somethign cool to see

[Manwithnoname]

Here is a link to a vid of me doing a 1 second reload with my 9 AR. If you look at my phone the par time is set to 1.01. For what ever reason, the program on my phone sets the time .01 higher than what I set it for. 

 

 

[Shadowrider]

9 minutes ago, Manwithnoname said:

Here is a link to a vid of me doing a 1 second reload with my 9 AR. If you look at my phone the par time is set to 1.01. For what ever reason, the program on my phone sets the time .01 higher than what I set it for. 

 

 

That's just pretty salty right there...

[Shadowrider]

Do you guys get any different times with 30+ round mags?  Got any numbers?  I need to pick up some G17 mags, all I have are 33 rounders.

[Manwithnoname]

I can be as fast with a 30+ rounder but not as accurate finding the magwell. I think it's harder to point the mag in. My plan so far has been to use my Taylor Freelance 41 rd mag for the stage and have my G17 +6 mags ready to reload if I have to. I've only shot three matches with PCC so far and I'm learning as I go. On one classifier (disaster factor) I used one of the taco mag pouches. When I went to reload the tip of the bullet caught one of the elastic straps and sent it flying. I can attest that a safariland 771 will hold a 30+ rd mag while running around a stage like a mad man. 

[Shadowrider]

Good to hear on the Safariland pouches as I have 4 of them.  

 

Merry Christmas all!