Bianchi 2017

[Chris1911]

Anyone heard anything about next year's Bianchi Cup. I guess we should expect similar to 2016 Bianchi Cup?

[8shooter]

I heard they are starting a day later and scrapping the "team shoot" but still running the 2 match shoot system.

[Alan550]

The web site says May 23-27 which is the same time frame they used in '16.  No other details yet, but it should be up soon, as registration usually starts in January for Early-Bird sign-ups.

[DWFAN]

May 23 is supposedly ironman.

[RippinSVT]

I spoke at length last week with NRA HQ.

The main championship match will be fired Wed-Friday the 24th-26th, as it was 2 years ago.  Saturday will be the championship finals as it was in 2016.  Tuesday May 23 will return to the old format of multigun/ironman shoot.  As I understood it the fired team match goes away (that was just a filler last year when attendance was low), but the team paper match comes back.  Kyle Weaver has been terminated, along with some of his upper management, and they are trying to get sponsorship and attendance back to where it was headed 2-3 years ago. 

[gm iprod]

On 13/12/2016 at 10:21 AM, RippinSVT said:

and they are trying to get sponsorship and attendance back to where it was headed 2-3 years ago. 

Then get rid of the Saturday shit. New format low attendance, any further clues required.

Edited December 14, 2016 by gm iprod

[RippinSVT]

3 hours ago, gm iprod said:

Then get rid of the Saturday shit. New format low attendance, any further clues required.

They want it for TV/media purposes I'm sure.  I'm not crazy about it either.

[DWFAN]

Teams are coming back in a format close to what we had in 2015. Registration and match book should go live on Jan 1 and have most information in there. Hopefully it makes sense.

[Action Pistolero]

I like the current Saturday format although I would like to see different events shot. At 8 AM saturday, pull four event names out of a hat that the range can handle. That's what you shoot.

[DWFAN]

1 hour ago, Action Pistolero said:

I like the current Saturday format although I would like to see different events shot. At 8 AM saturday, pull four event names out of a hat that the range can handle. That's what you shoot.

I also kind of like it, but I can see the lack of interest from a lot of others.

I thought I heard mention of the speed event coming back, but the only way I would enjoy that is if they could get timers that worked or used crossed plates for the stop plate.. and included a lot more shooters from all 3 divisions.

[gm iprod]

I like Kevins idea for the shoot off. But the winner of the match is the man / woman who shoots the best Wednesday through Friday. The Shoot offs are for extra prizes for the top 8 overall, and top 4 every other division.

You start on ZERO on Saturday!

 

 

[Action Pistolero]

Sorry GM, I disagree. Shoot the first four events to qualify. I have said this before, we are shooting the National Action Pistol Championship. We are not shooting the National Practical, Barricade, Mover and Plate Championship.

The Steel shoot off was a yawner at best. Most of the shooters that took part got to fire 20 rounds and leave. It ended up being an event that just had the feeling of hurry up and get it over with. At least with this past years format, we actually got to shoot more rounds with the gun that we normally shoot.

I just don't get it when someone says they don't like the format because it's only for the "elite" shooters. We all had to start somewhere. Set goals and strive to meet them. When I first went to Bianchi, my goal was to make the top 16. It took a few years but I made it.

[PPGMD]

The idea of the new shoot off format was that it would make it more broadcast friendly, but IMO that fails to understand that in truth NRA AP is pretty boring unless you know the people involved.

I think that if you want to make a more media friendly event you instead take the Colt Speed Shoot and put some serious cash behind it. And instead of taking the top 4 followed by the pointless "Lets put a pro-level GM vs someone that barely even knows how to shoot a gun." You take the top 16 or whatever from each division or category adjusted to participation vs time available. And do a shoot off with some serious awards behind it, like 3GN does.

For the media they now have three things to work off of when creating their story for the Cup, first the drama of who will win the main events. Second you have the drama of who is going to make the cut off. And finally you have the drama of the make or break nature of the shoot off.

The Bianchi Cup and related awards/prizes still go to the winner of the traditional events. This would be a separate award and prize. Yes it is a speed event vs the accuracy concentration of the rest of the events. But isn't that why the Speed Event is there to contrast the main events?

Edited December 16, 2016 by PPGMD

[Action Pistolero]

That's what we had.

The only thing the speed event has to do with A/P is that it happens to be in the rulebook. The vast majority of shooters don't shoot the same gun as they do in the 4 events.

To my knowledge, the only TV coverage that the speed event saw was back in the 90's.

[goldfieldshooter]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:00 PM, Action Pistolero said:

 

Sorry GM, I disagree. Shoot the first four events to qualify. I have said this before, we are shooting the National Action Pistol Championship. We are not shooting the National Practical, Barricade, Mover and Plate Championship.

 

Yes you are Kevin !   BUT the National Action Pistol Championship is an aggregate of the four matches (Match Five). The others are matches in their own right. Why should we have to shoot the matches twice to find a champion? Is it because only a very select few can shoot two perfect scores in a row? Is it because if someone can make a slight mistake on the first aggregate they can play make up on the second? Think about the other two hundred and fifty shooters that didn't make the top thirty two and probably two hundred and forty of them will never make the top sixteen in their life time but donate their entry fee to top up the top thirty two prize pool by not even getting a grab bag. It is advertised as the richest shooting event but that is now history. It might still have a lot of cash and prizes on offer but it has been narrowed down to a few recipients only. The 'World Shooting Champs" at Peacemaker is going the same way with the "Open Professional" class allowing shooters to use their own equipment instead of what is supplied. It kills the original concept of the match and is made up for about half a dozen 'made for TV' shooters. I hope John Bianchi's vision all thous years ago doesn't go the same way.

My 2c worth for what it is worth.

                           

[toothguy]

I wasn't around for the Masters International Shooting Championship and I have only heard stories about it's failure.  Hopefully history won't repeat itself.  The focus on Production was working, because that's where the new shooters and sponsors come from.  It's important to spread the prize money around and products from the sponsors, rather than just trying to get sponsors to write a check.  No matter what the tweaks to format are, the attention needs to be shared, so it's not just an Open shooters match.  

It would be nice to get some of the excitement back maybe through some of the more popular Youtube shooting channels.  They could be there through the week, with lower production costs, than just catering the format to Shooting USA.

 

 

[Action Pistolero]

On 12/17/2016 at 3:46 AM, goldfieldshooter said:

Yes you are Kevin !   BUT the National Action Pistol Championship is an aggregate of the four matches (Match Five). The others are matches in their own right. Why should we have to shoot the matches twice to find a champion? Is it because only a very select few can shoot two perfect scores in a row? Is it because if someone can make a slight mistake on the first aggregate they can play make up on the second? Think about the other two hundred and fifty shooters that didn't make the top thirty two and probably two hundred and forty of them will never make the top sixteen in their life time but donate their entry fee to top up the top thirty two prize pool by not even getting a grab bag. It is advertised as the richest shooting event but that is now history. It might still have a lot of cash and prizes on offer but it has been narrowed down to a few recipients only. The 'World Shooting Champs" at Peacemaker is going the same way with the "Open Professional" class allowing shooters to use their own equipment instead of what is supplied. It kills the original concept of the match and is made up for about half a dozen 'made for TV' shooters. I hope John Bianchi's vision all thous years ago doesn't go the same way.

My 2c worth for what it is worth.

                           

That is exactly what I was saying. I don't want to shoot the same four events again. I want the Bianchi Cup to represent all of Action Pistol, not just four of the events.

There are shooters in our sport that just want to shoot the four events. I have been told by some that they like that because they can step away from the sport for a while and then come back and see where they are. Others just want to use the four events as a measure of how they improved or struggle with. All that is fine if that's all they want. The current Cup format allows for that. I want more! I want a true test of a shooters ability not something that has been practiced over and over with the only variable being match conditions.

[Distant Thunder]

1 hour ago, Action Pistolero said:

That is exactly what I was saying. I don't want to shoot the same four events again. I want the Bianchi Cup to represent all of Action Pistol, not just four of the events.

There are shooters in our sport that just want to shoot the four events. I have been told by some that they like that because they can step away from the sport for a while and then come back and see where they are. Others just want to use the four events as a measure of how they improved or struggle with. All that is fine if that's all they want. The current Cup format allows for that. I want more! I want a true test of a shooters ability not something that has been practiced over and over with the only variable being match conditions.

Wouldn't that be kinda like, oh, I don't know ... USPSA?

[goldfieldshooter]

I agree about the four events being (getting) old hat. By all means shoot different events; even by drawing one out of a hat at the shooters briefing .That might get some attendance at the meeting. I know the range is set up for the four events we shoot but I am sure we can be inventive on selecting the events in the draw. What i am saying is that we do not need to shoot the whole match twice to find the winner. The Speed Event was probably introduced to fill in time to sort the scores out after the shoot offs. With modern scoring we could shoot the main match up to lunch time on Saturday and start later in the week or bring back the Iron Man event. That would save people taking more time away from work (a common moan on this forum) or more practice time if you can get the time off. I might be in the minority here but I do not consider watching the top 16 + + + shooting the whole match again to be entertainment for a Saturday. I am a shooter NOT a spectator. I could sit in my lounge at home, with a beer, and watch it on You Tube. 

[PPGMD]

4 hours ago, goldfieldshooter said:

I might be in the minority here but I do not consider watching the top 16 + + + shooting the whole match again to be entertainment for a Saturday. I am a shooter NOT a spectator. I could sit in my lounge at home, with a beer, and watch it on You Tube. 

After my first year, I've never gone to the Saturday Speed Shoot. I typically spend Saturday at the Practice Range doing a SpendEx with any ammo that I can't take on the airplane with me.

[Action Pistolero]

5 hours ago, Distant Thunder said:

Wouldn't that be kinda like, oh, I don't know ... USPSA?

Ummm. No. Not at all. USPSA matches come from the match directors ingenuity, not a rulebook listing courses of fire.

[Action Pistolero]

5 hours ago, goldfieldshooter said:

I agree about the four events being (getting) old hat. By all means shoot different events; even by drawing one out of a hat at the shooters briefing .That might get some attendance at the meeting. I know the range is set up for the four events we shoot but I am sure we can be inventive on selecting the events in the draw. What i am saying is that we do not need to shoot the whole match twice to find the winner. The Speed Event was probably introduced to fill in time to sort the scores out after the shoot offs. With modern scoring we could shoot the main match up to lunch time on Saturday and start later in the week or bring back the Iron Man event. That would save people taking more time away from work (a common moan on this forum) or more practice time if you can get the time off. I might be in the minority here but I do not consider watching the top 16 + + + shooting the whole match again to be entertainment for a Saturday. I am a shooter NOT a spectator. I could sit in my lounge at home, with a beer, and watch it on You Tube. 

What I'm saying is that unless you can get one or two of the four events changed, those of us that want a change will get that easier with the current format.

I would like to see metallic and production have more participants. Making the top 4 in each of these categories is just as hard as doing it in open. Leave the special categories alone.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't go watch someone shoot on saturday if I wasn't involved in it either.

I try to look at things from a newer shooter perspective and think about what I was going through when I started. I believe that a shooter needs to set goals and strive to achieve them.

[toothguy]

41 minutes ago, Action Pistolero said:

What I'm saying is that unless you can get one or two of the four events changed, those of us that want a change will get that easier with the current format.

I would like to see metallic and production have more participants. Making the top 4 in each of these categories is just as hard as doing it in open. Leave the special categories alone.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't go watch someone shoot on saturday if I wasn't involved in it either.

I try to look at things from a newer shooter perspective and think about what I was going through when I started. I believe that a shooter needs to set goals and strive to achieve them.

Trying to change the Bianchi Cup events has come up before.  They have been shooting the same four events at the Cup since 1979 and they are sacred cows.  The answer will be if you change any of the events, it won't be the Bianchi Cup.  If it were possible to make changes then you would alienate the base shooters, that have customized there guns and practice, for four very specific events.

They only need video of the top people, and that's much easier when they are together on Saturday.

[Action Pistolero]

Exactly!

I disagree about the guns. The only event that I don't shoot my normal gun in is the speed event.

[toothguy]

9 hours ago, Action Pistolero said:

Exactly!

I disagree about the guns. The only event that I don't shoot my normal gun in is the speed event.

I don't think there is really anything "normal" about an Open Bianchi gun.  The match, guns and training have been purely refined over many years to solve four perpetual problems.  Once you get into that static (Open gun) process no real change can occur.

Any real changes are going to need to come from Production but only when the numbers will support it.  That's going to take some leadership to go against the grain to provide incentive, money but more importantly recognition.  I don't think anyone shoots Bianchi for the prize money, given the costs of preparing for the match.

There are only a handful of Production shooters capable of shooting 1900+ with a recognizable handgun.  If you could grow that number then I think you would see sponsorship return.

Instead of depending on, and formatting the Saturday match to suit Shooting USA, why not also invite hickok45 with over two million, three hundred thousand subscribers or Iraqveteran8888 with over one million, two hundred thousand subscribers or other popular shooting channels.

I don't think the Saturday match was intended to be a snub, but it is.  It would be better recognition wise, if the one match format returned.