Top Fuel (Open major) vs. Top Alcohol (Open minor)......

[ShadoFann]

Yes it is, only a linemen would catch that. 

Funny...I thought the same thing. Yep, only a lineman would catch that.

[MikieM]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

Mikie, I have one Open gun that shoots minor loads with almost no felt recoil and no perceptible muzzle rise.  It is a joy to shoot.  It also shoots major well.

My other Open gun is Major.  Recoil is harder to the hand and the muzzle rises a very little bit.  I shoot this gun for USPSA.

Like you, I switched from Limited to Open this year.  Old eyes.  However, I've been shooting comp'd guns for years and I can tell you that a lot of the conventional wisdom is wrong.  Shoot what you like.  I also disagree with he advice not to start with minor as a "learning" tool.  BS.  With the right minor load it is easier to find out what you are doing wrong.  Everything is softer, quieter and less violent and you can spot problem areas easier.  I will say that transitioning from minor to major will take some adjustment.

I shoot Open minor for games, pins and unsanctioned matches where everyone is scored minor, and I am simply faster with it.  I shoot major for USPSA because I want the scoring advantage.  Even though I average between 92% and 95+% of all the points available on a stage, being scored minor for those Charlies and the occasional Delta would drop me in the overall standings.

Thank you for the insight.

Like I said, with the load at about the 135 power factor level, the dot hardly moved, the gun functioned perfectly, and I know the comp was working because it was shooting flatter than my ex-wife's chest.

I think that (1) doing what we do is a great learning experience, and (2), why not have fun while you learn. 

[BoyGlock]

As the OP said at 70 his score is not so important. Learning at this age will not be as easy as it used to be. So its his comfort level thats primary now. Go with minor 9!

[Hi-Power Jack]

Mikie, what do you perceive to be the ADVANTAGE of shooting PF135 vs PF168?

[MikieM]

3 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Mikie, what do you perceive to be the ADVANTAGE of shooting PF135 vs PF168?

Bear in mind that all, or at least most of what I say is not etched in stone. Things could change overnight.

Right now, I'm new at this modern USPSA/IPSC shooting sport. It's been 33 years since I've competed, and things have changed. A bunch.

Back in the day I shot with Wilson, Enos, Leatham, Plaxco, Seifried, Shaw, and many others. A big match for us was doing El Presidente, twice, and we had time to reenter and shoot a couple of more guns. The Open gun to shoot was Bill's Accu-Comp II on a tricked out Government model. Beaver-tails and Swenson safeties were the Bee's knees.

I was out again this afternoon (the weather is still holding, here) and once again the STI performed superbly. At the 135, or so, PF level the dot moves very little, and the gun is ridiculously easy to shoot. It is an out of the box DVC Open. I installed a shorter trigger, and a 7 pound recoil spring, and that's all that's been done.

I do not consider what I am doing sacrilege. It's just another approach.

By-the-way, the comp is still working, even at these reduced loads. 

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by MikieM

[MikieM]

This might help explain my thoughts better.   https.//www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOTHAgNYQsQ

I didn't do this right, but if you Google "Rob Leatham on Power Factor", you should get the video.

Edited December 2, 2016 by MikieM

[BoyGlock]

No matter what most here say, Im with the OP. Minor is softer to shoot than major in Open and otherwise. I shoot 38s major 99.9% of the time but when I shoot minor the difference is very very obvious to be far more easier to shoot. At 135 pf vs 170, the diifetrnce is a lot even by just the numbers without even shooting it. In 9, guess its night and day. 

[teros135]

39 minutes ago, BoyGlock said:

No matter what most here say, Im with the OP. Minor is softer to shoot than major in Open and otherwise. I shoot 38s major 99.9% of the time but when I shoot minor the difference is very very obvious to be far more easier to shoot. At 135 pf vs 170, the diifetrnce is a lot even by just the numbers without even shooting it. In 9, guess its night and day. 

And that's why Major is rewarded with more points for non-A hits.  

That said, if you're having fun in Minor, go for it!

[MikieM]

31 minutes ago, teros135 said:

 That said, if you're having fun in Minor, go for it!

My sentiment, exactly. Especially at the local club level.  

[d_striker]

I thought this thread was going to be about beer.  

 

[MikieM]

Regardless of how this plays out, I want you all to know how much I (as a new again shooter) appreciate the help, and advice.

Forums like this, and members like you, help make the learning curve a lot shorter, and a lot more fun.  

Mike Martin

[teros135]

2 hours ago, d_striker said:

I thought this thread was going to be about beer.  

 

One can always hope...

[arkadi]

Interesting, I find 9mm Major easier to shoot than truly minor not-much-gas fast powder 130PF loads. Most pleasant shooting is around 150PF.
3N38, CZ Shadow Open SAO convert and BinaryEng-like comp.

[Trent1k1]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 10:18 PM, MikieM said:

I don't mean to sound argumentative here, but how, or when do you know the comp is working. Or, working correctly.

As Gooldylocks said, you just know.

I'm assuming that you want to be competitive in Open.  To do that, you almost need to shoot major so the Charlies and Deltas don't hurt so fast. To make major, you need a 165.0 Power Factor.  With the Power Factor, I have tried different bullet weights, different speeds and Power Factors.  For me, a 170 Power Factor with a 115 grain bullet, gives me the most repeatable dot movement on my gun. 

I do shoot Minor loads for Steel Challenge.  The gun is 100% reliable, and extremely soft to shoot.  However, if any followup shots are required, the gun is very slow to come back on target for me as the recoil is completely different.  I'm certainly not doing .15 splits with minor either as i can do all day with Major.

Granted, I have put a ton of time and effort into finding a major round and setting up my gun so it works best for me.

Do whatever makes you feel good, it's not going to affect me at all.  I know that the more time you spend practicing with your 'Competition Rig/Gun/Bullet' the better.  If you want to spend months or years practicing minor you will probably be pretty good at it, but will have to go through the learning curve if and when you want to move to major.

[MikieM]

2 hours ago, Trent1k1 said:

As Gooldylocks said, you just know.

I'm assuming that you want to be competitive in Open.  To do that, you almost need to shoot major so the Charlies and Deltas don't hurt so fast. To make major, you need a 165.0 Power Factor.  With the Power Factor, I have tried different bullet weights, different speeds and Power Factors.  For me, a 170 Power Factor with a 115 grain bullet, gives me the most repeatable dot movement on my gun. 

I do shoot Minor loads for Steel Challenge.  The gun is 100% reliable, and extremely soft to shoot.  However, if any followup shots are required, the gun is very slow to come back on target for me as the recoil is completely different.  I'm certainly not doing .15 splits with minor either as i can do all day with Major.

Granted, I have put a ton of time and effort into finding a major round and setting up my gun so it works best for me.

Do whatever makes you feel good, it's not going to affect me at all.  I know that the more time you spend practicing with your 'Competition Rig/Gun/Bullet' the better.  If you want to spend months or years practicing minor you will probably be pretty good at it, but will have to go through the learning curve if and when you want to move to major.

I'm 70 years old, with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. How competitive do you think I can be?

Mostly I just want to have fun. I have and STI Edge for when I go to a match that has reentries.

I'm curious to know why your Steel gun is slow to come back on target when shooting follow-ups. If it's shooting soft it shouldn't move off the target hardly at all. Mine doesn't. 

 

Edited December 5, 2016 by MikieM

[js1130146]

The only real way to settle this is to develop a good major load and run it on the clock vs your preferred minor load and see what's fastest. The timer doesn't lie.

[MikieM]

1 hour ago, js1130146 said:

The only real way to settle this is to develop a good major load and run it on the clock vs your preferred minor load and see what's fastest. The timer doesn't lie.

A good Major load doesn't have to be developed. There are several already in existence.

As of yet I don't have a preferred load, although there are several I could use.

I am unclear as to what you mean by run it on the clock. Do you mean chronograph the loads? That has already been done.

Surely you don't mean draw and fire.

[ShortBus]

Run some drills with both loads using a shot timer...

[MikieM]

21 minutes ago, ShortBus said:

Run some drills with both loads using a shot timer...

Are you sure you're on the right thread. I never said that I thought one was any faster, or slower, than the other.

My only intention is to shoot Minor PF in Open division for awhile. I can always move up in power.

[ShortBus]

3 hours ago, js1130146 said:

The only real way to settle this is to develop a good major load and run it on the clock vs your preferred minor load and see what's fastest. The timer doesn't lie.

 

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

A good Major load doesn't have to be developed. There are several already in existence.

As of yet I don't have a preferred load, although there are several I could use.

I am unclear as to what you mean by run it on the clock. Do you mean chronograph the loads? That has already been done.

Surely you don't mean draw and fire.

 

1 hour ago, ShortBus said:

Run some drills with both loads using a shot timer...

 

1 hour ago, MikieM said:

Are you sure you're on the right thread. I never said that I thought one was any faster, or slower, than the other.

My only intention is to shoot Minor PF in Open division for awhile. I can always move up in power.

 

[MikieM]

22 minutes ago, ShortBus said:

 

 

 

 

Yes, and......

[js1130146]

 

8 hours ago, MikieM said:

Are you sure you're on the right thread. I never said that I thought one was any faster, or slower, than the other.

My only intention is to shoot Minor PF in Open division for awhile. I can always move up in power.

This discussion is about whether or not there's anything to gain by shooting minor for awhile before moving up to major pf. I don't see any advantage. With a major load tuned to your you should be able to shoot as fast (or faster) than with minor AND score more points. If you plan on shooting major loads eventually anyways you might as well get used to how the fun feels and tracks with major loads from the start. You will be better off.

All that being said. If you want to shoot minor, go shoot Minor. It won't bother me. The majority of people here will tell you to shoot major because that's what makes sense from the perspective of trying to win.

I guess I don't understand the point of this thread? Is it just an announcement of intent to shoot minor?

[MikieM]

48 minutes ago, js1130146 said:

 

This discussion is about whether or not there's anything to gain by shooting minor for awhile before moving up to major pf. I don't see any advantage. With a major load tuned to your you should be able to shoot as fast (or faster) than with minor AND score more points. If you plan on shooting major loads eventually anyways you might as well get used to how the fun feels and tracks with major loads from the start. You will be better off.

All that being said. If you want to shoot minor, go shoot Minor. It won't bother me. The majority of people here will tell you to shoot major because that's what makes sense from the perspective of trying to win.

I guess I don't understand the point of this thread? Is it just an announcement of intent to shoot minor?

Just curious. Why would I care if it bothered you?

[js1130146]

11 minutes ago, MikieM said:

Just curious. Why would I care if it bothered you?

Lol. You asked the people with experience if shooting minor for awhile before going major made sense. The majority said no. Now it just seems like you want to argue. 

You shooting major or minor doesn't affect any of us, so do as you will.

[teros135]

17 minutes ago, js1130146 said:

Lol. You asked the people with experience if shooting minor for awhile before going major made sense. The majority said no. Now it just seems like you want to argue. 

You shooting major or minor doesn't affect any of us, so do as you will.

FWIW, I'm starting to see the same thing.  

Everybody, please shoot what pleases you (within the rules, if course) and have fun.  That's what we're about, yes?