Top Fuel (Open major) vs. Top Alcohol (Open minor)......

[MikieM]

This seems like a reasonable comparison. Top Fuel dragsters (Open division, shooting major loads), versus Top Alcohol dragsters (Open division, shooting minor loads).

Top Alcohol is oft times a good place for drivers to gain experience before they move up to the big 10,000 horse power fuel cars. Wouldn't the same principle apply to those of us in Open class? By that, I mean, couldn't a person begin shooting Open using reduced loads (minor), and gain needed experience? Possibly with a shorter learning curve, before moving on to the major power factor ammo?

In my case I have just begun to shoot in the Open division. I wanted to for a number of reasons: I'm 70 years old and it's now, or never. The red dot is easier to pick up than my iron sighted Limited gun. And, I'm sure that the cool factor has something to do with it, too.

Today, I took my new STI  DVC Open gun to the range and tried two loads. One was 5.5 grains of WAC under a PD 124 grain JHP bullet seated to 1.150 inches OAL. The other was the same numbers only with 5.0 grains of WAC. 

Both were very accurate, and both cycled the gun flawlessly, and both seemed to make the comp work fine. Of the two the 5.0 grains of WAC was the mildest, with the least amount of felt recoil and muzzle rise. The dot moved very little.

My real question is this. For those of you with way more experience than I have does any of this seem out of line, or unreasonable?

And, are there better loads than these?

Thanks, Mike.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by MikieM

[Acsr]

Not a expert by any means but I would think the real advantage to open is the dot and the comp, less gas works your comp less,  so in theory your gun tuned correctly will be flatter.  plus coming from limited minor, major scoring was a huge difference maker

[ShadoFann]

You will probably make major power factor using 6.8 - 7.0 of WAC (9 major). Unless you really don't care about how you place in the match, shooting minor PF in open puts you at a pretty big disadvantage scoring wise. I think you will find that shooting major is really not significantly harder and maybe even easier to track the dot because the additional gas produced with more powder will allow the comp to do its job and the gun will stay flatter.

[Acsr]

Also is your dvc 9 or 38 super? my 38 super WAC load is 7.6 gr. 

[ShadoFann]

I suspect at 1.15 OAL and the DVC cycles with 5.0 grns of WAC you are probably shooting 9mm.

[MikieM]

At this point the score is less important. 

Also, at my age I'll never be a GM, or Master shooter, so my endeavors are mostly enjoying the sport. I am currently at C class in the Open division, and my goal is to make A class.

I may be wrong, but if I strive for a high A zone scoring percentage I should be able to comfortably shoot Minor in Open class. 

[MikieM]

9 minutes ago, ShadoFann said:

I suspect at 1.15 OAL and the DVC cycles with 5.0 grns of WAC you are probably shooting 9mm.

Yes, indeed.

[Gooldylocks]

No. Don't bother doing that. I get how one might think that way, but it's not worth it. The difference between shooting minor and major is so insignificant in open that all you are doing by shooting minor is costing yourself. All negatives, no positives.

Part of what you to learn when you are first shooting open is the balance of points and speed you need to play the game, and shooting minor won't teach you that. If your goal is to make A class, then shooting major is going to be a necessity.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[jcc7x7]

Start with a major load that helps you keep the Dot on target as fast as your eyes will SEE it.

With a good load and a proper grip the dot appears to just bounce in the A Zone at Major PF

Double plug so the noise is less or not distracting.  For most people it's the noise that their dealing with not recoil.

So solve the noise problem, load WAC to 168-172 PF and get shooting.

Drink alcohol after shooting if necessary LOL

[Bkreutz]

I find that shooting Open minor is harder than Open major. Major is easier to control and the felt recoil is less (at least to me). With minor it's really hard to get enough gas volume to work the compensator correctly. You didn't say what type of gun you are considering. If it's a polymer striker fired type (Glock, S&W, etc) then minor is probably the way to go. They don't like the hammering that Major PF puts on them. I've cracked 2 M&P slides. If you're using a 2011 platform, then go to Major. Good luck with your decision. (btw I will be in the super senior group this coming June, so I know where you're coming from)

 

Edit, never mind the part about the striker gun, I re-read your original post. See, just proved I'm getting old.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Bkreutz

[ano]

9 major, or 38SC honstly doesnt matter that much.

For referance I'm ranked as open Master, not GM though. but I know where to get more %'s and its not the calibers fault.

 

I own.. 9 majors, 38 super, 38 supercomps etc. 

 

imho getting a open gun to run 100% on  minor loads is harder than major. 

[MikieM]

9 minutes ago, ano said:

9 major, or 38SC honstly doesnt matter that much.

For referance I'm ranked as open Master, not GM though. but I know where to get more %'s and its not the calibers fault.

 

I own.. 9 majors, 38 super, 38 supercomps etc. 

 

imho getting a open gun to run 100% on  minor loads is harder than major. 

When you say harder to run on minor loads, are you referring to how the gun functions, or how the shooter functions?

[Hi-Power Jack]

No reason to run Minor - I tried it for a few months because I was afraid to reload to 9mm Major ...

I quickly learned that was a mistake - and started reloading Major loads - As Gooldylocks said,

there's NO advantage to shooting 5.0 or 5.5 gr WAC - you want to work it up, slowly and with

a chrono, to PF 168 - 172 ...

I understand your trepidation about loading Major - but, it is no big deal ( it used to be scary

ten years ago, when I started, but it's now a walk in the park.  

 

Try it ....    

[kneelingatlas]

Loading 9 major is not as scary as people who don't do it make it out to be, load up and rock on!  Like others have said, you gain nothing shooting minor.

[Trent1k1]

Shooting minor, the only thing your comp is doing is just being extra weight on the front of the gun.

When you find a load in Major, that works your comp (for me, abut 172 power factor), the gun just runs better.  I picked up my Limited Major gun, and holy cow, the recoil is SO MUCH MORE in Limited at 168PF, then 172 PF with my open gun.

[MikieM]

49 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

No reason to run Minor - I tried it for a few months because I was afraid to reload to 9mm Major ...

I quickly learned that was a mistake - and started reloading Major loads - As Gooldylocks said,

there's NO advantage to shooting 5.0 or 5.5 gr WAC - you want to work it up, slowly and with

a chrono, to PF 168 - 172 ...

I understand your trepidation about loading Major - but, it is no big deal ( it used to be scary

ten years ago, when I started, but it's now a walk in the park.  

 

Try it ....    

 

5 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said:

Loading 9 major is not as scary as people who don't do it make it out to be, load up and rock on!  Like others have said, you gain nothing shooting minor.

None of this is based on a fear of shooting a Major load. I was shooting Major out of a Wilson Accu-Comp II back in 1983.

I'm just wondering if there's more than one way for a 70 year old to skin a cat, or de-fur a feline, to put it another way.  

[MikieM]

9 minutes ago, Trent1k1 said:

Shooting minor, the only thing your comp is doing is just being extra weight on the front of the gun.

When you find a load in Major, that works your comp (for me, abut 172 power factor), the gun just runs better.  I picked up my Limited Major gun, and holy cow, the recoil is SO MUCH MORE in Limited at 168PF, then 172 PF with my open gun.

I don't mean to sound argumentative here, but how, or when do you know the comp is working. Or, working correctly.

[kneelingatlas]

If you insist on shooting minor try a 95/100gr bullet over 8gr of 3n38!

[ShortBus]

5 hours ago, Acsr said:

Also is your dvc 9 or 38 super? my 38 super WAC load is 7.6 gr. 

This is so random, but I have to know. Is your user name the acronym for aluminum conductor steel reinforced? 

[Gooldylocks]

3 hours ago, MikieM said:

I don't mean to sound argumentative here, but how, or when do you know the comp is working. Or, working correctly.

You will be able to see it. The way the dot tracks and returns... changes. I have shot flippy open guns that were super fast, because they just lifted and returned super well in recoil. I have shot really flat guns as well, and they too can be really fast when they track well. But then I can shoot minor through my gun and it is incredibly soft but tracks like garbage, and is actually slower for me to shoot than with my major loads. 

Short answer, is that you just kinda know

[Mhall]

8 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

If you insist on shooting minor try a 95/100gr bullet over 8gr of 3n38!

Shot a bunch of loads like this. AWESOME!  Perfect SC load.  

[ano]

13 hours ago, MikieM said:

When you say harder to run on minor loads, are you referring to how the gun functions, or how the shooter functions?

gun, short stroke etc. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I shoot with a guy here that is 82 years old and he shoots major 38 super. HS-6 shoots a little softer than Winchester Auto Comp. Work up a load in the 171-173 PF range and have fun. I find my open gun shoots softer than some limited guns shooting minor. Thanks, Eric

[Acsr]

10 hours ago, ShortBus said:

This is so random, but I have to know. Is your user name the acronym for aluminum conductor steel reinforced? 

Yes it is, only a linemen would catch that. 

[zzt]

Mikie, I have one Open gun that shoots minor loads with almost no felt recoil and no perceptible muzzle rise.  It is a joy to shoot.  It also shoots major well.

My other Open gun is Major.  Recoil is harder to the hand and the muzzle rises a very little bit.  I shoot this gun for USPSA.

Like you, I switched from Limited to Open this year.  Old eyes.  However, I've been shooting comp'd guns for years and I can tell you that a lot of the conventional wisdom is wrong.  Shoot what you like.  I also disagree with he advice not to start with minor as a "learning" tool.  BS.  With the right minor load it is easier to find out what you are doing wrong.  Everything is softer, quieter and less violent and you can spot problem areas easier.  I will say that transitioning from minor to major will take some adjustment.

I shoot Open minor for games, pins and unsanctioned matches where everyone is scored minor, and I am simply faster with it.  I shoot major for USPSA because I want the scoring advantage.  Even though I average between 92% and 95+% of all the points available on a stage, being scored minor for those Charlies and the occasional Delta would drop me in the overall standings.