Mark 7 Users - index speed and bullet topple

[Quirk]

Have Mark 7 system on my 1050. Tried both the stock shell plate and the FFB shell plate. The FFB plate clearly has less jiggle and subsequent bullet topple.

It's my impression, however, that index speed changes don't really help reduce bullet topple any more. In fact it seems that the index speed adjustment slows the plate in the middle of that change from station to station, but the slower it is, the more jiggle there is when it reaches the next station. In short, I'm experiencing is MORE bullet topple with SLOWER index speeds because the way the system controls the speed changes, apparently.

Anyone else noticed this?  I will try to video this....tonight...

Thanks

Q

[Want2BS8ed]

Q,

What bullet feeder are you using? I have an MBF and the biggest change to improve bullet topple for me was the "rubber band" mod. It's as simple as it sounds.

Outside of more flare on pistol cases or a proper button sizer on rifle, try adjusting dwell at both the top and bottom of your stroke. I was doing that more for the powder measure/drop, but noticed I could pick my dwell speed up a bit.

That's what helped in my case, but definitely post the video so we can see if there is something else funky going on.

Speaking of bullet topple, anything new in MkVII's bullet sensor?

M


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[echotango]

I might get a bullet topple 1:1000.  99% of the time it is a split 9mm case.  I have my index on 9, 2 top dwell, 2 bottom dwell and I also use a FFB shell plate and plate bearing.  I use the standard dillon powder drop and an M die at the swage station. 

 

[Quirk]

I use the MBF. I use an M-type die and flaring die earlier in the process (process and loading are different runs) so case is properly prepped. Waiting on the mythic combination M-die/swage backer rod die coming 'soon' for that station on the 1050.

For 9mm I use the dwell to pause at top to let any jiggling subside before the die comes crashing down. 

Toppling is not a huge problem, actually, I've found a rhythm that works for each of the various bullet types.  That said, I do observe that index speed reductions - while clearly slowing the plate motion on observation - don't actually decrease the apparent amplitude of that case/bullet jiggle at the end of indexing.   Let me get a video up to demonstrate - and watch in slo mo, also - before I stick my neck out any more on this.

And...what rubber band mod?  The only rubber band I have is the one I no longer need to prevent a U-trap in my MBF feeding spring....

Q

[zhunter]

I'm interested in the rubber band mod too

[echotango]

Rubber band around powder hopper to bullet feeder spring. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by echotango

[Want2BS8ed]

Run a rubber band from the MBF dropper to the die base. Not a lot of tension needed, but in addition to eliminating double bullet drops, I found it helped seat the bullet ever-so-slightly deeper in the case.

M

[Want2BS8ed]

Should have added, similar to ET; my index speed is set at 5, top dwell 2 and bottom dwell 2.

Running at 1,800 rounds an hour with a production rate somewhere in the mid-1,600's with stopping to feed cases, primers, powder and bullets.

M

[Want2BS8ed]

Rubber band around powder hopper to bullet feeder spring. 

Done that too, but that solves a different problem! LOL

M

[Kraj]

What kind of bullets are you using?

[echotango]

43 minutes ago, Want2BS8ed said:

Done that too, but that solves a different problem! LOL

M

I don't know of any other rubber band trick. 

[digby7]

10 hours ago, Quirk said:

I use the MBF. I use an M-type die and flaring die earlier in the process (process and loading are different runs) so case is properly prepped. Waiting on the mythic combination M-die/swage backer rod die coming 'soon' for that station on the 1050.

 

Can you go into a bit of detail about that?  Curious what you use for the m-type/flaring and does this do something to prep the case better than the flare provided from the MBF powder drop insert?

[Quirk]

2 hours ago, digby7 said:

Can you go into a bit of detail about that?  Curious what you use for the m-type/flaring and does this do something to prep the case better than the flare provided from the MBF powder drop insert?

M type die is an m die clone plug that fits in the lee universal flaring die set. Made by NOE Bullet Moulds.  I use this,  then a separate flaring stage using either the MBF funnel or depending on bullet, the Lee Universal flaring  insert.  Echo above uses m die at swage step but I process separate from loading and wanted to keep swage function station intact.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=89&osCsid=oc7kddhedij1e982to9okqb5v6

the Lee Universal Case Expanding die is more accurately renamed as a flaring die and is cheap on Amazon. 

MBF funnel alone for both purposes works fine for most but some Bullets esp coated lead (esp oversized lead bullets in an undersized case) need a few thou more expansion to prevent shaving or even inadvertent swaging of the bullet by the case itself. The m die or NOE insert plugs that mimic the m die function can provide this extra expansion. 

Too much and you'll get setback tho so have your calipers ready...

Q

[echotango]

6 hours ago, digby7 said:

Can you go into a bit of detail about that?  Curious what you use for the m-type/flaring and does this do something to prep the case better than the flare provided from the MBF powder drop insert?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/600695/lyman-neck-expander-m-die-9mm-380-acp-38-super

[Humbo]

Here's a picture of the rubber band trick that I use on all my Mr. Bulletfeeders. Works very well.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Humbo