Black Bullets International 125gr TC Issue

[jeffroberdo]

I am growing to Dislike BBI Bullets and i am Asking the community if anyone likes or dislikes them and has ever had issues with them.  My issue is with the consistency of the coating (I Think).

Pictured below (as well as i could) is a picture of the top of the bullets. If you can, Notice the small nipple on top of the bullet. Its on every one of them.

Its causing me issues with my O.A.L. measurements. NEVER get a consistent measurement. Trying to get 1.125.

Also, Seems to me like the coating is causing bullet diameter issues as well. Not consistent at all. 

Glock 34 Factory Barrel Plunk and Spin testing almost every round at this point and rejecting at least half of them.

What is everyone's opinions?

[onebadeye]

None of my bbi bullets look like that,it loos like you have an issue  with your seating die.

[njl]

Are the bullet noses like that before you load them?  Could it be that your seating stem is doing that to them?  

Though 1.125" seems kind of on the shorter end already, you seem to have an awful lot of bearing surface forward of the case mouth.  What happens with your plunk test if you load them a bit shorter?  

As for the surface irregularity, I wonder if that was caused before or after coating by bullets denting each other during manufacturing, or if it's really an issue with inconsistent coating thickness.  Those look more like surface irregularities in the lead (dents) to me.

[jeffroberdo]

8 minutes ago, njl said:

Are the bullet noses like that before you load them?  Could it be that your seating stem is doing that to them?  

Though 1.125" seems kind of on the shorter end already, you seem to have an awful lot of bearing surface forward of the case mouth.  What happens with your plunk test if you load them a bit shorter?  

As for the surface irregularity, I wonder if that was caused before or after coating by bullets denting each other during manufacturing, or if it's really an issue with inconsistent coating thickness.  Those look more like surface irregularities in the lead (dents) to me.

I think you guys might be right. I just inspected the bullets before loading and not much of a nipple at all.

As for my O.A.L. I am going by the hodgdon Web Site load data length for the 125gr LCN Bullet. I wanted to keep a happy medium between 1.110 and 1.150. Winchester Factory 115gr FMJ is 1.150.

I am taking the seating die out of the SDB right now to see.

[njl]

Different bullet shapes may require different OALs.  I wouldn't worry about what OAL factory FMJ ammo is.  Just find what works for a given bullet in your guns.

Also, at least with my .45 loads, I've found that coated bullets need to be loaded to minimize the bearing surface exposed outside the brass, or it gets scraped while chambering (or extracting).

[jeffroberdo]

3 minutes ago, njl said:

Different bullet shapes may require different OALs.  I wouldn't worry about what OAL factory FMJ ammo is.  Just find what works for a given bullet in your guns.

Also, at least with my .45 loads, I've found that coated bullets need to be loaded to minimize the bearing surface exposed outside the brass, or it gets scraped while chambering (or extracting).

Okay, So do an O.A.L. on the shorter side of the measurements say 1.110 and they plunk and spin fine, would these be okay to shoot like that?

I looked at both seating dies and either one i would use will do that to this bullet.  I have 2000 of these things to use.

After these i am gonna go back to the Flat Points.

[Swanny10]

BBI's never spin when I plunk them. But I've never had a problem after 4-5000 rounds. 

[GJGary]

I have shot thousands of the 125 bbi at 1.110 in my czs.

I drop test so I can drop and spin.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If one half of your reloads fail The Plunk Test, it's time to shorten your OAL's  

[Swanny10]

I fail to see why. I understand why you say that but a couple years ago when I started having this problem I read everything I could on here about the plunk test and even with an OAL OF 1.0 I was still having plunk failures. And after running this many rounds without a problem and with accuracy I can live with I fail to see the harm. Is there another danger I am unaware of?

[MemphisMechanic]

1. Run an OAL at 1.125" or 1.130" and see what happens. You'll probably like it's ability to 

2. It looks like you're using the flat-nose profile seating die. Flip it and use the round-nose profile instead. Yes, even though the bullet has a flat point. Your Dillon die is leaving a round raised spot on the bullet because the die's flat point and the bullet's don't perfectly match.

Edited November 18, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[jeffroberdo]

2 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

1. Run an OAL at 1.125" or 1.130" and see what happens. You'll probably like it's ability to 

2. It looks like you're using the flat-nose profile seating die. Flip it and use the round-nose profile instead. (Yes yes, even though the bullet has a flat point. Your Dillon die is leaving a round raised spot on the bullet. They're bad about doing that)

@MemphisMechanic. The O.A.L. i am trying to achieve is 1.125 and its binding during Plunk and spin. I am going to try seating some tonight way down in the 1.0xx - 1.10 range and test. Late last night after posting this i removed the Flat Nosed seating die and got out the Round nosed seating die and it looks to me as like the very tip of this Truncated Cone bullet looks like it will sit directly on the flat part of the very top of both. I think the Round Nosed Die would leave the tip deformed also. I am gonna try it tonight and see.

I am also going to switch back to a Flat Point bullet too. SnS casting has a 125gr Coated Flat Point.

[MemphisMechanic]

Okay, I'll grant you that's weird. Their fatter BBI 135gr bullet plunks & spins in my G34 out past 1.130" and your bullet should be able to be loaded longer than that, not shorter!

[Swanny10]

I would very much like to be able to spin the round in there but I can't make it happen with coated bullets. In fact it's not uncommon for them to not fall freely from the barrel. I really wish BBI had .355 as an option. 

My apologies to the OP. I didn't mean to make this thread about my problems. If anybody has input for me feel free to PM. 

[jeffroberdo]

7 minutes ago, Swanny10 said:

I would very much like to be able to spin the round in there but I can't make it happen with coated bullets. In fact it's not uncommon for them to not fall freely from the barrel. I really wish BBI had .355 as an option. 

My apologies to the OP. I didn't mean to make this thread about my problems. If anybody has input for me feel free to PM. 

I also wish more of the manufacturers offered a coated in .355. I know Blue Bullets does and they may be my next purchase.

[IDescribe]

Jeffroberdo, published load data is not a recipe.  It's a field report.  You use that to create your own load.  You need to find the maximum OAL at which your cartridge will plunk and spin freely in your chamber.  Then your target OAL should probably .015 shorter than that to allow for the unavoidable variation from one actuation of your press to the next.  What the published data says THEY tested at is not what you should load at.  And what some commercial manufacturer loads a complete different bullet to is not in any way relevant.  

Also, IF you have a seating die with two stems or a reversible stem, use the hollow side that seats off of the ogive instead of the nose.  Bullets are slightly different lengths.  If you use the flat anvil side that seats off the nose, you will get a more consistent OAL at the expense of a less consistent seating depth and a less consistent gap between the bullet shoulders and the lands.  Both of those latter measurements have a real effect on ballistics.  How far the nose is from the headstamp does not.  So load with the hollow one that seats of the ogive.  That will give you consistency in those latter two details that actually matter.   And it won't eff up your bullet.

[rdinga]

I believe a shorter COAL will serve you well. Try 1.1 and see if your problems go away.

[jcc7x7]

9 hours ago, jeffroberdo said:

I also wish more of the manufacturers offered a coated in .355. I know Blue Bullets does and they may be my next purchase.

Bayou will make them at .355 all you have to do is ask when you place the order

[IDescribe]

Swanny, bullet to barrel fit is one of the most important things with accuracy, and it seems to be magnified a little with lead and coated lead, vs jacketed.  You do not want to undersize lead bullets and sacrifice accuracy for the sake of getting a cartridge to spin freely.  Go do some searches and reading on bullet fit over at Castboolits to understand more about it.  

[Sac Law Man]

What kind of gun are you shooting? The ability of the bullet to plunk and spin has a lot to do with the barrel and the bullet.  If your shooting a CZ and the barrel has not been reamed, you will have to load shorter.  You also have to take into account the ogive of each bullet.  Comparing a factory round that has a completely different bullet profile is useless.  My duty round, WIn Ranger 127 +P+ measure 1.11 COL. Anyway, I load the BBI 125 at 1.10 and they feed and cycle fine.

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[jeffroberdo]

On 11/19/2016 at 3:14 PM, Sac Law Man said:

What kind of gun are you shooting? The ability of the bullet to plunk and spin has a lot to do with the barrel and the bullet.  If your shooting a CZ and the barrel has not been reamed, you will have to load shorter.  You also have to take into account the ogive of each bullet.  Comparing a factory round that has a completely different bullet profile is useless.  My duty round, WIn Ranger 127 +P+ measure 1.11 COL. Anyway, I load the BBI 125 at 1.10 and they feed and cycle fine.

 

Says in my Original Post, I am shooting a Glock 34 Factory Barrel. I am switching over to the Glock 34 from an M&P Pro for the upcoming USPSA Shooting season and am doing my load development work for this gun.

I just received my shipment of SnS Casting 125gr Flat Point bullets and so far i am impressed with the coating. Very clean and smooth compared to the BBI.

I did my bullet seating and dummy round development last night and the way this bullet style is shaped i will be having a (what i consider) pretty short C..O.L. of about 1.050.

I will tell ya that the testers i have done so far plunk, spin and drop free very very well.

I will be loading up a bunch at different powder weights this week and testing for function and accuracy. We have a match on Sunday afternoon for a Field Test.

My 2017 Season will begin February 27th for 3 matches a month.

[IDescribe]

Okay, there's something wrong.  That SNS 125gr bullet doesn't contact lands in a CZ until somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.08-1.10, depending on pistol sample.  Your Glock should be .03-.04 LONGER than that.  Would you run us through your plunk and spin test procedure so we can see if there's something not quite right that you're doing?

Or better yet, could you simply make a dummy round @ OAL 1.10.  No primer.  No powder.  But ...

1. RESIZE a case
2. EXPAND/FLARE the case mouth
3. SEAT the bullet to 1.10
4. CRIMP to .378

Make sure you crimp to .377/.378.  Measure it.  It's important to make sure this is getting assessed solely by bullet/rifling engagement.  

Now plunk and spin.  Does it still not spin freely?

[rustybayonet]

On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 1:10 PM, jeffroberdo said:

I also wish more of the manufacturers offered a coated in .355. I know Blue Bullets does and they may be my next purchase.

The problem with .355 in coated bullets is that you may not get good contact with your rifling and cause gas blow by, which in turn may cause more leading in your barrel.

[jeffroberdo]

On 11/21/2016 at 2:22 PM, IDescribe said:

Okay, there's something wrong.  That SNS 125gr bullet doesn't contact lands in a CZ until somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.08-1.10, depending on pistol sample.  Your Glock should be .03-.04 LONGER than that.  Would you run us through your plunk and spin test procedure so we can see if there's something not quite right that you're doing?

Or better yet, could you simply make a dummy round @ OAL 1.10.  No primer.  No powder.  But ...

1. RESIZE a case
2. EXPAND/FLARE the case mouth
3. SEAT the bullet to 1.10
4. CRIMP to .378

Make sure you crimp to .377/.378.  Measure it.  It's important to make sure this is getting assessed solely by bullet/rifling engagement.  

Now plunk and spin.  Does it still not spin freely?

Testing Completed using the SnS 125gr FP's. Very Pleased with Results.

Specs: Glock 34 Factory Barrel

            125gr SnS Coated Flat Point

            C.O.L.: 1.050 +/- .001

            Crimp: .377

            Powder: 3.7gr Tightgroup

            100rnds tested: Flawless Plunk, Spin and Drop Free of Chamber.

            10yard off hand group of 50rnds netted around 3in grouping (Not Exact)  Slightly to the left of center and slightly high about 1.5in.

            15yard Pistol Rest Group of 50rnds netted almost the same probably 4in grouping (not exact). 

As for the BBI 125cn, I will since i have about 1800 of those left to try i will certainly give them a second chance once these SnS 125's are shot up.

I just think they were loaded to long and not the best quality control on the coating.

[IDescribe]

Okay, you quoted me, but you didn't explain your plunk and spin test procedure.  And you didn't make a complete dummy round at OAL 1.10, where you resized, seated, and crimped to .377/378.  

Again, there should be no need to seat as short as 1.05.  Something is up with your plunk and spin procedure, or you have a burr in your chamber that needs to be polished out.