Time to switch to 1050

[RickT]

I'm loading 5K+ rounds/month on an LNL AP with case and Mr. BulletFeeder.  The case feeder is really the only troublesome appliance; there are tweaks and since I only run 9mm I'm sure with some sweat equity I could get it to run more reliably, but I'm baffled that a company like Hornady can't supply a case feeder that works reliably on the most common caliber.  I do have something strange going on with my powder meter although over time this has proven to be very solid.

I just want to be able to load 1000+ rounds in a session without having a case log jam or frequent single case jams.  And faster would be better.  The only adjustments I might make during a session would be powder load and OAL as we have 3-4 different handguns we load for, all 9mm.

Is it unreasonable to expect a 1050 to crank out >1000 rounds with nary a glitch.  Having loaded near 100K rounds I have a good feel for producing good ammo, but I'm sure a 1050 has its nuances.  How much setup effort should someone expect?

[oteroman]

The majority of hiccups on a 1050 for me are not the cause of the 1050. It is a random SP 45acp, a 380acp that slipped through my sorting...
Keep it clean (easy), it runs.
I have LNL AP and I need to sell it as I never use it...it is so different I just get bad memories. It is a good rig but not a volume machine IMO, BUT I AM SPOILED.

[tkheard]

I moved from a 550B to a 650 a few months ago. It is nirvana for me. The only addition I'd make to my 650 is an MBF. I recently loaded 1000 9mm on it in a single session. I was still pretty new to it and had zero problems. I liked the 550B, but I love my 650. I also load 45 and 38 Short Colt. Switching is a breeze. Case feed is rock solid. YMMV, but a 1050 was out of my league, at least for know.

[lefty o]

if your only loading 9mm, id deck out a 650 and run the heck out of it.

[Quirk]

I have a 550b and 1050. The 1050 now has a MBF and a Mark 7 system. This rocks. But, to be honest, if you load <1000 a month, if it was me, then get a 650. More than that, yes the 1050 might be worth it, esp if ALL you do is one caliber like 9mm. But I will say - and this is just my experience -the 1050 is a more finicky machine and it takes time to learn the personality of your machine.  Some of the gurus here will torch that comment, but I'm not someone with natural proclivity for these things. Took me some time, and yes some of that learning curve was a frustrating press lock-up in the middle of a session. If you are mechanically inclined, great. I had a primer system jam frequently for the first 10-15k rounds, and took the thing into Dillon, cleaned, etc multiple times.  Dillon just shrugged and said to try a different brand primer. The problem eventually slowly went away on its own, and now it's flawless, for all primers. I attribute it to the break in period of any complex piece of gear in the home.  The 1050 has more moving parts, that's why it's potentially 'better', but that means possibly more to go wrong. Took me over a year to really understand the entire machine well.  But once it's broke in and such, it rocks.  

[Phlier]

i've had my 1050 for about four months now, and after a love/hate relationship that lasted a good solid month, the hate portion is definitely gone. I LOVE my 1050. And yes, after you get the hang of tuning the thing, you can plan on sitting down and loading 1,000+++ rounds without a hiccup. Last week, I loaded 4,000 rounds, and the only problem I had was an upside down primer (my fault). Other than that, just sit there and pull the handle. Dead solid reliability.

The swaging station on the 1050 means that you don't have to fool around with military brass. Throw it in the case feeder and forgeddaboutid.

Even though the 1050 is reloading Nirvana for me, it isn't without it's drawbacks. Caliber conversion kits and tool heads are just insanely expensive. Unless you're made of gold, it's just not economically feasible to plan on loading more than one or two calibers on it. Make sure you factor that into your buying decision. It's really too bad, too; if it was less expensive to change calibers on it, the 1050 would be just... perfect.

[cjim]

1 hour ago, lefty o said:

if your only loading 9mm, id deck out a 650 and run the heck out of it.

 

I agree, for the quantity RT is doing, the 650 will be a better investment.  The money saved can be invested in components.

[RichJacot]

x3 on the 650 if you're only doing 9mm.

[TennJeep1618]

8 hours ago, lefty o said:

if your only loading 9mm, id deck out a 650 and run the heck out of it.

Having owned a 650, currently owning a 1050, and shooting primarily 9mm, I disagree.  The built in swaging station, priming on the downstroke, and the priming system in general are worth the price of admission, IMO.  My 1050 is so much smoother and easier to load on than the 650.

[RickT]

Roger regarding the 650.  I'm leaning in that direction.  Cost isn't too bad and I already have a BF.  On the one hand it's a lot of $ to improve case feeding.  OTOH life is short(er) when you're a senior.  The plus would be I'd leave the LNL for 45 ACP.  I will miss the LNL primer system.  I've literally never had a problem in all those rounds and I'd also be hoping that I can either a)use the Hornady powder measure or b)have a micrometer adustment on the 650.  I'm sure the latter is available.

Thanks for all the helpful inputs.

[Kraj]

If all your loading is 9mm in bulk that's sounds perfect for a 1050. Do everything else on the lnl. 

[RichJacot]

I also have a 1050 and 650 (with a bullet feeder on both).  After using both for multiple calibers... my 650 now sits dedicated to 9mm, with a bullet feeder of course.  ;-)  I can't say I was planning it that way when I got my 1050, it just kinda ended up that way.  I don't have an issue priming with the few crimped 9mm I get.  Yes, I may have a crimped case/primer issue with 1 MAYBE 2 primers out of 1000-1500.  IMO swaging is a non-issue for that few.  As for priming on the downstroke, I've never had an issue with the 650's forward stroke.  IMO it gives you more "feel", while priming, so when you hit those few crimped ones, you can feel it in 99% of the time.  

Some other thoughts to maybe help with your decission...  My 1050 has the Ponsness/Warren auto drive with the 900 RPH gearing.  When my wife is loading .223 on the 1050 and I'm on the the 650 loading 9mm, I can load about 20-25% more/faster than her at the 900 RPH (the 900 RPH for rifle is plenty fast enough for me).   As I've seen other here say, the 650 is a beast with a bullet feeder. 

Good Luck in your decision.  Either way welcome to the Blue!  lol

[mikeinctown]

I have a 650 and had always thought that getting a 1050 for the amount of ammo I produce would be silly. Then people started pointing how how some of the police brass they are now seeing has crimped primer pockets. Then I supervised my son loading ammo and how he would not always seat the primers on the push stroke and get the cases screwed up being pushed into the shellplate. And then I remembered how I hurt my shoulder last year and was out of commission for over 2 months. (an autodrive system would solve that)

 

So in essence, I started to think that the 1050 would be of a much bigger benefit for those three reasons even if I don't even load 5,000 or 10,000 rounds in a single year. If you have the funds, go for it. Oh, and from what I have read, there is a period where there will be issued to iron out, but once you do everything is trouble free.

[MemphisMechanic]

I've loaded nothing but 9mm, for six to seven years , on a 650. And done so in 500 to 1,000 round batches.

I'm going to implore you to buy a 1050. You'll really really want it within six months.

If you don't go that way, at least buy mine so that I can make the jump. ;-)

Edited November 18, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[Want2BS8ed]

I ran two LNL's for several years and couldn't get through 1,000 rounds without some problem - typically the primer carriage/guide wire.

I purchased my first 1050 with a MkVII drive to run 9mm. I was so impressed I ripped out both LNL's, sold them to a local dealer and bought a second 1050 (fortunately through BE before he retired, because he helped me save a bunch on different caliber conversions).

From someone who was in your very spot, I can tell you you will not be disappointed.

To give you an idea of reliability, the other weekend while feeding cases, primers, powder and bullets into the MkVII driven machine to produce 4,000 rounds of 9MM, I cranked out 500 rounds of .308, did a caliber conversion and ran another 500 rounds of 10MM. The only issues? All on the automated machine: 3 bullets toppled from the MBF (dumping powder into the output bin - messy but recoverable) and I had two cases that failed to feed into the shellplate and were caught in the sizing station.

Not bad for about 2-1/2 to 3 hours of work!

M


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[safeactionjackson]

On 11/18/2016 at 8:06 AM, TennJeep1618 said:

Having owned a 650, currently owning a 1050, and shooting primarily 9mm, I disagree.  The built in swaging station, priming on the downstroke, and the priming system in general are worth the price of admission, IMO.  My 1050 is so much smoother and easier to load on than the 650.

^I'm in this camp.

I purchased an s1050 about 6 month after i started reloading, it was taking far to long to load 9mm on the 550b (at least in the quantities I was shooting).  Added a MBF about six months ago, and wouldn't consider anything else.  100 rounds takes 4 minutes with my current setup.  Last month I did almost 4K worth of 9mm, had one primer issue (which is about the average for me).  It's almost not even worth mentioning.

1050 w/ MBF installed will surely require you to add an RF100 to your collection.

Can it be done on a xl650, sure.... but I don't think you can compare the two experiences.

~g

[RickT]

3 hours ago, safeactionjackson said:

.....

1050 w/ MBF installed will surely require you to add an RF100 to your collection.....

~g

I actually use one of the Hornady red pistol primer tube loaders and this thing works like a champ.  It got so I dreaded picking up primers before the red pistol arrive on the scene.  I am going to look into an RF100, however.

Edited November 20, 2016 by RickT

[mcracco]

While I wouldn't say the 'for that qty the 650 is a better machine for you' statement is bad advice, however have to disagree. If you want a 1050 get a 1050. As long as you can afford it and have a reasonable understanding of machines you won't regret it.

[78Staff]

I too recently moved to a 1050 for 45 and 9mm.  I still load other calibers that I shoot less often on a 550 - 10mm, revolver stuff, etc.  Yes RF-100 would be a good addon for sure, I don;t know if I could go back to picking primers.  Have never used any of the various vibration type loaders, but the RF-1000 makes quick work of it and when loading 1000+ a session comes in handy.

Agree with above, it's not a volume requirement for me, but the 1050 is just that much nicer to use.  Doesn't mean I couldn't keep loading everything on the 550, but I prefer to use the 1050 to churn out large batches of set loads.  If one can afford it they won't regret getting at 1050, but don't go broke buying one, because your components budget will increase as well :).

[Chris777]

I have 2 hornady LNL and a 1050.  All are great machines.  I added the 1050 for a few specific reasons.

- Dedicated crimp removal / swage station.  A good chunk of my 9mm range brass is crimped and manually removing the crimp is a PIA.... Would rather buy new ammo than waste my time working 9mm brass.  The crimped brass was causing my LNL to crush primers and screw up my primer feed. - 1050 takes care of this

- LNL always need some level of tweaking after 500 round.  Need to clean the primer shuttle, retaining spring would get a crimp and need to be replaced... the case feeder sucks... would jam often or pile up the brass in the hopper funnel.. When the LNL works... its works well... but you will never get thru more than 500 rounds with out the need to tweak something.... with the 1050 I can run atleast 800 rounds an hour manually and with out a hiccup...

Downside of a 1050 compared to LNL

- Cost and time to change calibers... between 250 - 500 bucks depending on the change over setup (its not hard.. but costly) and the 1050 is pricy... you could buy a lot of ammo for $1750.....

- Powder measure sucks compared to LNL - Just don't like the Dillon powder measure.  Very difficult to get the level of precision and repeatability of pistol powder charges I have with the LNL powder funnel.  LNL I can get +- 0.05 gr... Dillon can vary as much as +- 0.2 gr based on my experience with W231

- 1050 primers -  there have been spells where the 1050 will dump primers when reloading... the plastic parts in the primer tube wear and will cause issues with priming brass.... Clearing a primer jam is more involved that doing so with the LNL...

 

Overall I love the 1050 and would not go back to the LNL.  Since I also have 2 LNL, I use these for my other calibers and dedicate the 1050 to 9mm which is the majority of what I shoot. 

If you can change the oil in your car, you have all the mechanical aptitude you need to run and maintain a 1050.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Chris777

[jester121]

4 minutes ago, Chris777 said:

If you can change the oil in your car, 

Change what now?

Just ordered an XL 650 after a few years with a Hornady LNL (+ casefeeder + bullet feeder). My experience pretty much mimics what Chris describes, always some kind of dinking around with the Hornady after a few hundred rounds. I've found the case feeder to be generally pretty good, but the bullet feeder tube/dies can be a bit of a $#%!@ when it's feeling cranky.

I wasn't really pissed off or angry or frustrated at or tired of the Lock N Load, more just wanted to see how the other side lives and if the grass is really greener -- basically if the hassle factor is lower. I know there's no panacea.... 

The primer system on my Hornady has been absolutely flawless, seating primers nice and deep with no special effort, though I know some H users haven't been so fortunate. Same goes for the powder feed system -- absolutely zero compaints with it, and no problems that weren't self-inflicted. I'm a bit concerned at some of the complaints I hear about the Dillon primer hassles and the powder measure, but I'm sure I'll survive.

One "no brainer" part of the equation is that I can most certainly get nearly all my money back if I decide I made a mistake.

[RickT]

I like the Hornady, ever aspect save for the case feeder for which there are a host of tweaks.  I do load >5K rounds/month of 9mm so the 1050 makes sense.

Hornady Summary:

• Mr. BF - solid of course with the occasional inverted bullet
• Primer System - no problems whatsoever
• Pawls - haven't adjusted them in I don't know how long
• Shell plate movement - not bad at all, but I'm not loading near the top of the case
• Handle effort - no problem with IF ergo handle
• Case feeder - frustrating and not every incantation works on every case feeder
• Powder Measure - metering is very accurate, but I've got a quirk which I've been unable to pin down

Doesn't matter at this point as I've taken the good-size plunge to a 1050, but the LNL will be good for small test runs, etc.  I will have a micrometer on both the powder measure and seating die for the 1050.

[78Staff]

I have not used a LNL, but did quite a bit of research last year and was considering one.  While you do run across folks that seem to have no issue and love theirs, there seem to be many more posts regarding having to adjust/tweak something every couple hundred rounds, having to do "junkyard fixes" to get it to work reliably, etc.  Now, complainers post more than revelers, of course, but pretty much across the board the LNL was halied a a tinker's nightmare lol.

I'll echo the above posters comments on Dillon's powder measure - I too see a larger variance than I would like - however mine are older and I have them stripped down and am not using any of the safety rod/return rod setup, but rather the older less clunky dual spring return setup.  I don't know if that has any effect on accuracy?  It also depends on powder as well.  However the "newer" PM with all the fancy safety stuff on the 1050 is pretty accurate.

[jester121]

1 hour ago, 78Staff said:

 While you do run across folks that seem to have no issue and love theirs, there seem to be many more posts regarding having to adjust/tweak something every couple hundred rounds, having to do "junkyard fixes" to get it to work reliably, etc.

I don't think that's unfair. The LnL has probably a smaller install base (especially on BEnos) so asking questions doesn't really get you a chorus of replies ... other than "get a Dillon".

But just to mention -- there's a ton of aftermarket stuff out there for Dillon 650 and 1050 as well, people will say you need such-and-such a handle, and a bearing kit, and so-and-so makes a ball retention spring or a better toolhead... I think to an extent this comes from some guys inborn need to tinker, and the fact that we have a lot of those guys in the shooting hobby. Nature of the beast...

[78Staff]

Valid points, I was going to type something similar re Dillon tweaking, the primer systems for instance is a popular area, as well as detent balls/springs - even moreso if you start automating at 1050 - but my post started getting long winded so I cut it short I guess :).

There's a guy on here that has 4 or 5 ammo plants, and loves them to death.  It's quite an awe-inspiring pic of his bench will all that Red :).