Recalls instead of warranty

[Boxerglocker]

1 hour ago, amada8 said:

I agree with most of what you wrote...except the part about the advancement "jump".  You said that "someone mentioned".......well, it is a common problem shared by a large population of 650XL reloaders.  Smaller spring or a smaller ball bearing are no cost (to Dillon) fixes.  The roller washer with associated flat washers....under $5.  There is no engineering costs associated with any of these common fixes that have been documented ..... for years!  So for this particular Dillon "problem"....the fix SHOULD have been a no-brainer revision.

((Personally I use a smaller ball bearing from McMaster Carr ( original is .375", now use a .354") with the original Dillon spring,,, and have just added the roller bearing.  Not sure why I waited so long to add the roller bearing..but the action is now smooth as silk.  Seriously, smooth as silk))

 

Firstly I own both a XL650 and a Super 1050, so I agree given the right circumstances the problem is there. Like I said before, " All the other stuff is fluff in regards to how we personally run the machine" Smaller spring or a smaller ball bearing are no cost (to Dillon) fixes sure but do these enhancements make it an improvement for every caliber conversion offered?

Engineering costs associated with any improvements are based on what the manufacturing entity researches as having added value to end item. As an example, You state the roller bearing adds minimal cost. That may be true for the flat washer and bearing them selves. What about the cost of dealing with the tweaks to the ejector spring because of that roller being added? If they redesign the spring, pay to have it retooled, will it work for every caliber combo possible? They could add instructions to their website on how to tweak it but what about those that can't get it right/ What would be the cost in extra customer support? 

Working in the  aerospace manufacturing field. I know what is involved in even making the simplest design changes. Dillon has obviously not deemed these changes mentioned as value added.... and honestly I cannot blame them. That is not to say they don't make changes cause the do. Subtle ones maybe like a improvement on a primer slide, sizing die decapping pin, index ring material and geometry, adding grease zerks, a fail safe system on a powder measure. 

 

[amada8]

OK.  Guess I will throw away my mechanical engineering degree and 40 years owning a precision sheet metal company......

 

You see it one way, I see it another.  No harm, no foul

Edited November 8, 2016 by amada8

[Overscore]

When I'm not loading ammo, I'm often outside working on my outdoor hobbies.  My best tool in that part of life is a small Kubota backhoe.  The model that I have had a handful of of common complaints that people talked about online.  Those complaints:

• Plastic hood, fenders, and platform
• When stopping in reverse, the tractor would halt to a stop and the tractor would jerk quite a bit
• Unable to operate loader or backhoe at engine idle speed

The next model of this tractor come out, Kubota proudly announced that they addressed these common complaints, and all were remedied.  Kubota is clearly a much, much larger company than Dillon, and they make products that are much more complex.  But, I put them in the same category as far as their quality among competitors.

I realize that Kubota didn't issue recalls or offer fixes to the existing design (well, they did offer some for the plastic platform), but they still acknowledged and responded to the feedback they got, and they did so in the exact next model.  I think this is fantastic.

Dillon is completely silent about some problems, which while quite simple, cause a good deal of agita among many of its customers.  This is what I find disappointing.  I would happily buy fixes for these minor things.  I love that they'll replace all the broken things for free, but can't they please address these minor design flaws that have been around for YEARS?

[Phlier]

On 11/7/2016 at 11:54 AM, Boxerglocker said:

Disclaimer: I'm not picking on anyone. Every few years it seems that someone will post a thread like this in regards to the points that have been made. “Dillon should come up with a fix” Insinuating for the price we paid.... it should be better... etc. Well the reality, it's is already a proven well made product… it’s a business and involves many complicated business processes that take both time and money to implement. The unspent primer ski ramp… you would expect them to spend money to retool to do what, add a screw cup to the bottom? The spent primer chute same thing? Someone mentioned, “The shell plate advance jump that causes bullets to tip over and powder to jump out of cases” this has never been an issue for me, why them? I lube the index paw with grease, use a powder that does not overly fill the case and make sure that I have sufficient flare on the case mouth.

 

My point is you can’t please all of the people all of the time. However, using the excuse because of the money we spent it should be better is reaching. There is not a Dillon press out there that can’t work, reliable in stock form. It’s just a matter of setting it up right and Dillon is always making tweaks and adjustments on certain parts and pieces you just never here of them until you actually need one. All the other stuff is fluff in regards to how we personally run the machine. I added a bearing and made my own spent primer mod for my 650 as a convenience thing for me. Not that the press didn't work without them. On my 1050, I have minimal aftermarket enhances and have no problems with it related to my type, pace and frequency or using it.

 

Sometimes it does take an opposing point of view...

You make some very good points.

In spite of the fact that the shell plate bouncing powder out of my cases makes me crazy, I do, in fact, love my press. So much so that it's my avatar picture.

While I'd love to see a few things fixed, I did come on way too strongly, and for that I apologize.

Darn it, now I need to find something else to be mad about.

Overscore said it much better than I did, and with much more tact: "Dillon is completely silent about some problems, which while quite simple, cause a good deal of agita among many of its customers.  This is what I find disappointing.  I would happily buy fixes for these minor things.  I love that they'll replace all the broken things for free, but can't they please address these minor design flaws that have been around for YEARS?"

Edited November 8, 2016 by Phlier

[WideOpenThrottle]

3 hours ago, amada8 said:

I agree with most of what you wrote...except the part about the advancement "jump".  You said that "someone mentioned".......well, it is a common problem shared by a large population of 650XL reloaders.  Smaller spring or a smaller ball bearing are no cost (to Dillon) fixes.  The roller washer with associated flat washers....under $5.  There is no engineering costs associated with any of these common fixes that have been documented ..... for years!  So for this particular Dillon "problem"....the fix SHOULD have been a no-brainer revision.

((Personally I use a smaller ball bearing from McMaster Carr ( original is .375", now use a .354") with the original Dillon spring,,, and have just added the roller bearing.  Not sure why I waited so long to add the roller bearing..but the action is now smooth as silk.  Seriously, smooth as silk))

 

If the Indexer Block is adjusted (Timed) so that the ball going into the detent in the bottom of the shell plate,  is controlled by the by the handle movement on the up stroke, the "jump" of the shell plate is eliminated.  It just takes a little tuning.

 I agree with the roller bearing, thou.  They should have added that years ago.  I like that i can snug the shell plate down much tighter, and get no movement while seating primers.  

BRC

[mikeinctown]

On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 1:52 PM, amada8 said:

OK.  Guess I will throw away my mechanical engineering degree and 40 years owning a precision sheet metal company......

 

You see it one way, I see it another.  No harm, no foul

Since you own our own company, perhaps you can tell us what would happen to your company if you stole a designor idea that someone not within your company came up with.

[amada8]

5 hours ago, mikeinctown said:

Since you own our own company, perhaps you can tell us what would happen to your company if you stole a designor idea that someone not within your company came up with.

Uh,,,OK, I'll play.  AND....will hopefully point this in the direction of Dillon modifications that is the focus of this thread.

Company A (my company)

Designer B (not an employee of Company A)

Only question applicable to this thread:  Does Designer B have a patent on the idea?
 

To another issue bg raised above..... by adding the roller bearing and washers to my press, I did indeed need to tweak the ejector spring.  The "new" spring works for all of the calibers that I load......because the associated part was changed (height of the roller bearing added) to being the same height for all. 

The ejector spring was most likely made on a four slide machine in quantities of 100 to 500 at a time. Maybe a 1000 piece order is the norm as I do not know how many loaders Dillon sells in a year....IF they buy EAU.  A 1000 piece order on a four slide is an incredibly small production run.  To tweak an angle bend directly after the loop has a cost....true.  IF it is a dedicated die set, the four slide company adds two ram/piston combos at a cost that might run into the low hundreds.  To tweak the existing downward angle (by location) already engineered into the part....is less cost.  Therefore it can be imprecisely calculated to cost Dillon .10-.25 per spring....first run...... and subsequent runs with no additional cost (than current cost) per spring.  

If this tweak of adding the roller bearing and tweak to the spring is deemed a value add-on by Dillon....... I'm kinda feeling the price differential will not be felt at the retail level.

Edited November 11, 2016 by amada8

[cjim]

I solved the plate jump by adjusting the case slide insert. Spent a few looking it over as the press indexed to next station. Timed it to slide the case in as it locked in to station.

There are aftermarket "upgrades" one can do, if so inclined.  As for Dillon doing said upgrades , now sending out presses with them. I'm sure people would complain. Well i'd buy a Dillon,if they weren't so expensive. 

Stick with the blue press, or sell it and buy another brand. You'd be surprised how much bang for the buck you'll be missing with another press.

Edited November 18, 2016 by cjim

[Prodigal]

On 11/6/2016 at 9:01 PM, molson said:

Chuck,

 

Here it is.  In my case, I needed to add a little downward bend as well into the hole that the leg fits into.  I have a bearing with a single race on top and with the very slight bend down, solved the issue of the ejector popping out of the hole.  

 

Molson

Dillon XL650 Ejector Spring Bend.pdf

 

Hi, any chance you can put this PDF onto a dropbox or similar for sharing, I'm unable to download the attachment from the forums? Thank you

[Livin_cincy]

I suspect that Dillon is content making a product that 70% of their customers are happy with right out of the box.  Another 25% buy the host of after market parts and get there Press to work the way they like it.  The remaining 5% sell their Press for 70-80% of retail price and move away from reloading.

 

The Dillon Product line is showing its age.   So if the market place reduces sales they will intrudes a new models.  Until then they will not shelve their current product.

 

RCBS came out with ProChucker 5&7 station presses.   They are still full of growing pains as reviews and factory issued modifications are sent out.

 

Lee has a new 4 station Progressive Press that uses the same tool holder/ Turret as their 4 hole Classic Cast Turret Press do out in the next 12 months.

 

I have not heard anything about  Hornady.

 

I suspect Dillon will be moving to new products as well.  They have plenty of discontinued models from the past so they are not against change.   They are also required to stay on the top of the hill to maintain their pricing.  I suspect more stations and a swagging station are on the new Dillon.    

 

I would like to see a move away from primer tubes as well on their new Press.  RCBS abandoned their strip clip of primers to the shagrin of their loyalists.  Not sure if the patents are up on that or not.  Being able to load primer strips with a hand primer while watching TV and have a thousand ready vs filling pick up tubes seems nice.  

Edited April 7, 2017 by Livin_cincy

[Hi-Power Jack]

What brand and model reloader are you most happy about and currently using?

[rustybayonet]

On Sunday, November 06, 2016 at 0:52 AM, jmorris said:

 

 

Don't trash it, return it or send me a PM with what color press you would like me to send you in trade for it.

+100

[rustybayonet]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

What brand and model reloader are you most happy about and currently using?

 

RL550B

[SCTaylor]

Yeesh I musta got a golden egg of a 650.  (Knock on wood).

 

Only problems have been self inflicted. No powder loss  in 9mm (moderate density e3) with the "snap" unless I'm freaking ripping on that thing like a teenager in heat. I just don't get all the frustration!

[Fmantee]

On 2016-11-06 at 7:55 PM, Phlier said:

Interesting that Dillon gets feedback on design problems and chooses not to fix them. I spend (too) much time cruising the various gun related forums... reading mostly, posting occasionally. And invariably the same problems on Dillon presses show up over and over again, yet they choose to just let it slide.

The one that seriously bugs me is the shell plate advance jump that causes bullets to tip over and powder to jump out of cases. Sure, there are after market "solutions" to this problem that do help somewhat, but honestly, it shouldn't be necessary, especially with presses in the Dillon price range. We pay premium money for our machines and expect them to work out of the box,  and be reliable.

Once these issues are identified, Dillon should come up with a fix.

The silence is deafening.

I used to have that "jump" until I figured out it was the Case Insert Slide and Slide Cam (part no. 97082) pushing the empty shell into the shell plate too soon. I adjusted the Camming Pin (part no. 13371) until the shell plate advanced and stopped and then the Cam would push the empty shell in. I have not tipped any bullets over or lost any powder since then. Read about it on here somewhere. Got rid of years of frustration.