W231 or WSF?

[RickT]

My wife and I shoot steel challenge using N320 behind 115gr coated.  I have a good supply of N320 and I need same for the amount we shoot, but I have 16 lbs each of W231 and WSF.  I also have a bunch of 147gr bullets that I would like to deposit downrange.

I've found WSF loads for 147gr all the way down to 115gr, but haven't found a W231 load for the heavier bullets.  I have run N320 behind the 147gr even though there is not published load so I suppose I could safely work up a W231/147gr load as well.

I would work up a 147gr load for the chosen powder and then switch to a lighter bullet, 115gr in the case of W231 and perhaps 124gr for the WSF.

These are 9mm 1911s and I'd be way, way down on PF just as long as the gun cycles so recoil is not a big deal.  Any thoughts?  Faster powder at the uppder limit of bullet weight or slower powder?  Of course I could just ignore all my 147gr unused bullets and pick a powder best suited to what I'm doing.

Edit: I'm familiar with WSF, not so much W231.  We starting our 1911s on a low calorie WSF/147gr diet and then graduated to N320/115gr when that powder became available.

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by RickT
additional information

[Brooke]

Winchester 231 is the same powder as HP-38. There is all kinds of info out there for them. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

You don't need much WW231 with a 147 gr lead bullet ...

I seem to remember using as little as 3.6 gr with a JHP to make PF131.

I'd start with 3.0 grains, and work up slowly.

You won't have any problems getting up to PF 130 with WW231.     

[IDescribe]

231 is going to be very comparable to your N320.  It's going to take 0.0-0.2gr more 231 than N320 for the same velocity.  Take your "suitable" N320 147data, knock off 10%, then work back up.

In terms of burn rate, N320 and 231 are perfectly appropriate for 9mm minor.  WSF is not too slow for 9mm minor, but its slowish for 9mm minor IF you are shooting at a reasonable 9mm minor power factor of 132-135.  As you start going south of that, you will run into problems with WSF with late/poor pressure seals and inefficient burns.  So if you're running these closer to 135 no problem, but Steel Challenge has no minimum power factor, and so some people like to run steel sub minor, and if you're down there in sub-minor range, I'd say WSF is enitrely inappropriate.  

[wingnut]

I am running 135gr  with 4,0 WSF and 147 with 3,6 WSF coated at 132 to 133 PF. Are you saying that WSF is to slow. What other powder do you recommend 

that is as clean as WSF.   out of a spo1.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

WST is absolutely beautiful behind a 135 coated bullet. Short of getting sketchy with something like Clays or N310, it's pretty freaking soft.

Slower Winchester powders like 231 or WSF will let you load faster ammo (140+ PF defensive stuff) in weights around 124gr, and they also play better with a 115gr bullet for 130ish power factor than the fast powders.

But if you're thinking 124 and heavier, a faster burning powder will produce softer felt recoil. If you want to stick with the Winchester line, give WST a hard look!

Edited October 31, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[JLeeCZ]

What IDescribe said.  I recently tested WSF with PD 124gr JHP.  ES and SD both came down as I increased the powder charge.  My ladder stopped at 130 PF and it shot ok but going to push it up closer to 135 where I expect to have what I want.  Have a lot of WSF and am preparing for the next powder shortage which is the reason I wanted to find a load using the PD 124. Don't plan on regularly using WSF with 124s but I can if the need arises, as in I can't find powder.

231/HP-38 on the other hand performed really well with the 124 gr.and is what I prefer with that weight bullet.  

147 gr is a different story.  It works great with WSF and has become my go-to for 147gr bullets.

[RickT]

The W231 makes the most sense as I can probably work up a 115gr load that is pretty similar to our N320 load for my wife's benefit.  I can use up my left-over 147 gr bullets in practice; 3.1gr of N320 worked with 147gr Bayou so as suggested I'll start at 3.0gr with the W231 and see how everything cycles.  I've also got to work up some softer loads for my wife's carry guns (9mm and 45ACP), but I'm not going to worry about that for a month.  

[MemphisMechanic]

The thing to remember is that loading softer ammo isn't simply a matter of using lower and lower charge weights. Below a certain floor your charge will burn very very dirty and inconsistently. 

A faster burning powder is going to be above the book minimum while pushing a bullet to 130-135 power factor.

A slow-burn like WSF is going to be loaded very very light and will have the above side effects.

I agree 231 is one of the best powders to do everything with, and it'll do it halfway well. Just remember the old saying: "jack of all trades, master of none."

Edited November 1, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[JD45]

I found an 8lb jug of WST locally for 180 bucks. Should I buy it since things may go to crap after the election? I've never used it. I load 9 minor and .45 major with Clays now. 

[Out of Ammo]

It's my understanding that WST is really made for .45.  However, I love shooting it for 9mm minor.