2017 Berrys USPSA Area 1 Championship

[motosapiens]

that is wild. when my squad shot that stage, I gave everyone a lecture and a demo based on my experience with previous similar stages, and I'm glad I did.

[MikeBurgess]

Things like this make me wonder what kind of challenges people are seeing at their local matches, and or what type of officiating are they getting. 

We try run stages with a variety of start positions regularly at our matches and all the local shooters I talked to or watched didn't seem to think the start was a big deal, they all said you just have to make sure your all the way around before you draw, it was very matter of fact to them.

Heck there is even a classifier with a up range hands at sides start (99-47) 

[robertwyatt]

18 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

Things like this make me wonder what kind of challenges people are seeing at their local matches, and or what type of officiating are they getting. 

We try run stages with a variety of start positions regularly at our matches and all the local shooters I talked to or watched didn't seem to think the start was a big deal, they all said you just have to make sure your all the way around before you draw, it was very matter of fact to them.

Heck there is even a classifier with a up range hands at sides start (99-47) 

With 99-47 you have a full and complete turn. That gives tons of time to properly clear the 180. With stage 13, the targets were basically at 175 and within two-three steps. I totally understand what you are saying though.

[MikeBurgess]

I am familiar with the stage, I was one of the successful shooters.

I actually set that stage up at our club match the week before and while the first targets were a bit further away it didn't seem to cause anyone any issues I did give a general warning during the group walk through in the morning to watch for the 180 on that stage. 

[CHA-LEE]

This is a big kid game with big kid rules and associated consequences. We can't put a seat belt, helmet, airbag, training wheels or warning label on everything. Shooters need to assess the situation to identify potential risks, formulate a safe solution for the stage and take ownership in their actions. If you choose to draw the gun while the muzzle is pointed up range then you get to live with that decision and enjoy a frosty treat at Dairy Queen.

 

I like to say "Every stage provides the opportunity to make the wrong decision". Some stages have more opportunity in making the wrong decisions than others.

[IL-SIG]

14 minutes ago, CHA-LEE said:

This is a big kid game with big kid rules and associated consequences. We can't put a seat belt, helmet, airbag, training wheels or warning label on everything. Shooters need to assess the situation to identify potential risks, formulate a safe solution for the stage and take ownership in their actions. If you choose to draw the gun while the muzzle is pointed up range then you get to live with that decision and enjoy a frosty treat at Dairy Queen.

 

I like to say "Every stage provides the opportunity to make the wrong decision". Some stages have more opportunity in making the wrong decisions than others.

+1

[Bkreutz]

Charlie, quit being polite and tell us what you really think.

[tanks]

Interesting, I never gave Stage 13 a second thought in thinking "I must not DQ". I figuredI had plenty of time to draw on the way to the edge where the targets were. I usually swivel my hips as I am drawing while taking a step or moving my weak side foot over. Almost impossible to break the 180 then.

[motosapiens]

47 minutes ago, tanks said:

Interesting, I never gave Stage 13 a second thought in thinking "I must not DQ". I figuredI had plenty of time to draw on the way to the edge where the targets were. I usually swivel my hips as I am drawing while taking a step or moving my weak side foot over. Almost impossible to break the 180 then.

Yeah, roughly same here. I never really worry about me, but I really hate when other people dq, and many other people it seems are only dimly aware of where downrange is and where their muzzle is pointed. To me it's the prime objective in training. That's why I made a big deal of it to my squad. Cuz they might get a total hardazz like robert wyatt or cha-lee as an RO.  

[robertwyatt]

17 hours ago, CHA-LEE said:

This is a big kid game with big kid rules and associated consequences. We can't put a seat belt, helmet, airbag, training wheels or warning label on everything. Shooters need to assess the situation to identify potential risks, formulate a safe solution for the stage and take ownership in their actions. If you choose to draw the gun while the muzzle is pointed up range then you get to live with that decision and enjoy a frosty treat at Dairy Queen.

 

I like to say "Every stage provides the opportunity to make the wrong decision". Some stages have more opportunity in making the wrong decisions than others.

I agree with you. As a question though, if you as a stage designer saw a potential area that could cause a higher than normal possibility of DQ's would you try and adjust the stage? I'm just curious as to your thoughts.

[CHA-LEE]

15 minutes ago, robertwyatt said:

I agree with you. As a question though, if you as a stage designer saw a potential area that could cause a higher than normal possibility of DQ's would you try and adjust the stage? I'm just curious as to your thoughts.

 

From a match director perspective I wouldn't put a Facing Up Range with hands at sides start position on a stage like this. The configuration of this stage forced the shooter to take at least 2 - 3 steps to either side before they can start shooting so the specific condition of that start position really doesn't matter from a stage time perspective. All it does is increase risk to the shooter as it is more probable that someone would break the 180. From a "Product that customers will enjoy and promoting safety perspective" it makes zero sense to me as an MD to have a Facing Up Range with hands at sides starting position for this stage.

 

As a competitor, I really don't care. Its my responsibility to break down and navigate a course of fire in a manner that is safe. All of the competitors are tasked with the same challenge so its "Fair" from that perspective. Am I going to delay my draw until it is obvious that my hips and gun are pointed down range before I initiate the draw? Hell Yes I am. I don't want to risk going home early for doing something stupid that has zero competitive advantage.   

[robertwyatt]

1 minute ago, CHA-LEE said:

 

From a match director perspective I wouldn't put a Facing Up Range with hands at sides start position on a stage like this. The configuration of this stage forced the shooter to take at least 2 - 3 steps to either side before they can start shooting so the specific condition of that start position really doesn't matter from a stage time perspective. All it does is increase risk to the shooter as it is more probable that someone would break the 180. From a "Product that customers will enjoy and promoting safety perspective" it makes zero sense to me as an MD to have a Facing Up Range with hands at sides starting position for this stage.

 

As a competitor, I really don't care. Its my responsibility to break down and navigate a course of fire in a manner that is safe. All of the competitors are tasked with the same challenge so its "Fair" from that perspective. Am I going to delay my draw until it is obvious that my hips and gun are pointed down range before I initiate the draw? Hell Yes I am. I don't want to risk going home early for doing something stupid that has zero competitive advantage.   

I like it. Thanks!

[motosapiens]

On 4/7/2017 at 11:13 AM, CHA-LEE said:

 

The configuration of this stage forced the shooter to take at least 2 - 3 steps to either side before they can start shooting so the specific condition of that start position really doesn't matter from a stage time perspective. All it does is increase risk to the shooter as it is more probable that someone would break the 180.

 

In my experience, this is the key. Uprange starts that involve lateral movement to the first target can only end in tears for large numbers of people. My stage (4, triple swinger) was originally uprange start but thankfully was changed to downrange before the match started.

 

BTW, thanks for working the match cha-lee. I think that was the first time I have run a stage you were working. It was a great stage, well run, and I love to see high-level competitors like yourself get involved in the business end too. Not saying that robert and I can't shoot for shiznit..... but,... well, maybe I am saying that. But thanks again to both of you.

Edited April 8, 2017 by motosapiens