2017 Berrys USPSA Area 1 Championship

[Unibrain]

19 minutes ago, Rez805 said:

Indeed! A big thank you to Robert for RO'ing it. That tally on his hand, tho. 

 

I know we are all big kids and should know to turn then draw but facing uprange with hands at sides is begging for people to DQ.  Wrists above shoulders wouldn't have changed the shooting challenge but is a more practiced starting position and may have saved a couple those tally marks.

[robertwyatt]

3 minutes ago, Unibrain said:

 

I know we are all big kids and should know to turn then draw but facing uprange with hands at sides is begging for people to DQ.  Wrists above shoulders wouldn't have changed the shooting challenge but is a more practiced starting position and may have saved a couple those tally marks.

 

The overwhelming majority of the tally marks came from race holsters. You just get that gun out so quick that you became susceptible to me pulling out the sharpie marker. A lot of the problem was having the initial targets so close to the start position. Moving the start position up range even 3' would have negated most of the problems. However, my personal opinion and one that I actually tested was to have the shooters start facing down range. When I ran the two positions the times were close enough to be inconsequential, but the disaster factor for a downrange start was completely eliminated.

[rowdyb]

2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

I shot that stage first on thursday morning, freezing my buns off and not really having much clue about the swinger behavior. Worst stage of the match for me. would have loved to have been last shooter on that stage.

 

I made a mental note to try to look you up in introduce myself but once the main match got going we were extremely busy.

yep, and as a wed/thurs shooter i was home friday afternoon.

[motosapiens]

11 hours ago, rowdyb said:

yep, and as a wed/thurs shooter i was home friday afternoon.

:'(

As a wed/thur shooter I was working 12+ hr days fri/sat/sun. But now it seems like it was fun and rewarding.

[CAB33]

Amazing coverage of the match on Facebook, the people responsible really brought USPSA coverage to another level IMO.

[MAC702]

20 hours ago, Unibrain said:

 

I know we are all big kids and should know to turn then draw but facing uprange with hands at sides is begging for people to DQ.  Wrists above shoulders wouldn't have changed the shooting challenge but is a more practiced starting position and may have saved a couple those tally marks.

 

When I did my first walk-through for that stage, I would have totally DQ'd it.  I drew as I was turning and started air-gunning.  After two "shots," I stopped and asked myself: "WTF did you just do?"  In fact, I changed my first thought of which way to turn to ensure that I would have the least chance of forgetting again.  It definitely taught me a lesson as I realized how quickly I failed it in that walk-through.

[MAC702]

3 hours ago, CAB33 said:

Amazing coverage of the match on Facebook, the people responsible really brought USPSA coverage to another level IMO.

Do we get to see any kind of website coverage other than Facebook?  Do we have to be members of Facebook to see it there?

[Sandbagger123]

22 hours ago, robertwyatt said:

 

The overwhelming majority of the tally marks came from race holsters. You just get that gun out so quick that you became susceptible to me pulling out the sharpie marker. A lot of the problem was having the initial targets so close to the start position. Moving the start position up range even 3' would have negated most of the problems. However, my personal opinion and one that I actually tested was to have the shooters start facing down range. When I ran the two positions the times were close enough to be inconsequential, but the disaster factor for a downrange start was completely eliminated.

i personally dislike uprange starts.  i think more would have gone home early if there was a RO stationed in that corner instead of just you running the whole stage when we got there.  

[robertwyatt]

1 hour ago, Sandbagger123 said:

i personally dislike uprange starts.  i think more would have gone home early if there was a RO stationed in that corner instead of just you running the whole stage when we got there.  

Eventually, I stopped standing over there for that reason...

[BritinUSA]

4 hours ago, MAC702 said:

Do we get to see any kind of website coverage other than Facebook?  Do we have to be members of Facebook to see it there?

 

Its not necessary to sign on to Facebook to see videos, but you do get to watch an annoying pop up screen every few seconds that requires action to get rid off. 

 

[motosapiens]

regarding uprange starts, my first a1 in 2013 we had an uprange start that required a couple lateral steps to the first shooting position. Those lateral steps slow your turn and make it VERY easy to pull the gun early and point it directly at the left-side RO. Sadly, we had to notice a number of people who dq'd themselves by pointing their gun 60 degrees uprange. That hurt my feelings a little and ever since i have strived to educate shooters at our local matches about the need to be aware of uprange starts with lateral movement. I was most pleased that they changed my stage (4) to a downrange start. I have had some long talks with distinguished RM's on this topic. I would really like to be able to put something into the stage brief about that sort of trap, but we are all big boys (and girls) I guess.

 

I make myself content by bringing it up for my squad when I shoot the match, because it is always a bummer when anyone on your squad dq's.

Edited April 6, 2017 by motosapiens

[race1911]

...a tip I picked up after watching a top GM in Canada...........pick up a small rock with your strong hand....after the start signal you will already have turned enough before you can drop that rock that you will be unable to break the 90..... yet really fast as you don't even have to think about the possibility of breaking 90

Edited April 6, 2017 by race1911

[robertwyatt]

12 hours ago, motosapiens said:

regarding uprange starts, my first a1 in 2013 we had an uprange start that required a couple lateral steps to the first shooting position. Those lateral steps slow your turn and make it VERY easy to pull the gun early and point it directly at the left-side RO. Sadly, we had to notice a number of people who dq'd themselves by pointing their gun 60 degrees uprange. That hurt my feelings a little and ever since i have strived to educate shooters at our local matches about the need to be aware of uprange starts with lateral movement. I was most pleased that they changed my stage (4) to a downrange start. I have had some long talks with distinguished RM's on this topic. I would really like to be able to put something into the stage brief about that sort of trap, but we are all big boys (and girls) I guess.

 

I make myself content by bringing it up for my squad when I shoot the match, because it is always a bummer when anyone on your squad dq's.

Until you're in the position of having to DQ that many people, it's really hard to explain the emotional toll that kind of thing does to you. I totally get there are RO's who want to add another notch to their DQ gun belt. But the big lesson I took away from this match was as a stage designer, consider all classes and divisions when designing stages. You don't necessarily have to accommodate everyone but it's worth taking the time to consider how a start position could put a shooter into a situation where you would have abnormally high levels of problems. And, if possible correct that before the match starts.

[motosapiens]

I'm with you Robert. I hate DQ-ing people. It ruins my day.  I think it's perfectly OK to incorporate a safety warning about real traps like uprange starts that have immediate lateral movement into the stage brief, but of course you have to get the RM to ok it, and you have to make sure every squad gets the exact same warning.

[MAC702]

11 hours ago, race1911 said:

...a tip I picked up after watching a top GM in Canada...........pick up a small rock with your strong hand....after the start signal you will already have turned enough before you can drop that rock that you will be unable to break the 90..... yet really fast as you don't even have to think about the possibility of breaking 90

At first I'm thinking that's not a bad idea.  But I've been wondering all morning if holding an object is "hands relaxed" and if CROs and MDs at every match will agree whether it is or not.

[Sandbagger123]

one of the most interesting is people that the gun in the 1 or 2 o'clock position.  many don't realize that even though the body has turned 90 degrees, the gun has not. so they actually need to turn further their body more  than 90 degrees to avoid a D/Q.    i see it happen at many a local match 

[robertwyatt]

1 hour ago, MAC702 said:

At first I'm thinking that's not a bad idea.  But I've been wondering all morning if holding an object is "hands relaxed" and if CROs and MDs at every match will agree whether it is or not.

I'm kind of a stickler for the hands hanging naturally thing but I would have zero problems with someone holding a small rock. It's the people that darn near have their hand on the gun and trying to say that is natural I have issues with.

[Bkreutz]

8 minutes ago, robertwyatt said:

I'm kind of a stickler for the hands hanging naturally thing but I would have zero problems with someone holding a small rock. It's the people that darn near have their hand on the gun and trying to say that is natural I have issues with.

If I was the RO, they'd be standing for a long time waiting for the "are you ready" command.

[motosapiens]

rather than use some timing gimmick like holding a rock, I prefer to just turn all the way around before I draw my gun. I don't need the extra .1 second enough to risk a dq, or even a 'muzzle' warning that might distract me.

[robertwyatt]

40 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

rather than use some timing gimmick like holding a rock, I prefer to just turn all the way around before I draw my gun. I don't need the extra .1 second enough to risk a dq, or even a 'muzzle' warning that might distract me.

This is so true. I tried repeatedly to explain that to people. You had a good two-three steps before you even had the target available. Just turn, then draw the gun. Dead simple and 100% safe.

[MAC702]

30 minutes ago, robertwyatt said:

...Just turn, then draw the gun. Dead simple and 100% safe.

Aw, c'mon.  We all know that nothing ruins a dead simple plan like a "beep."

[robertwyatt]

1 minute ago, MAC702 said:

Aw, c'mon.  We all know that nothing ruins a dead simple plan like a "beep."

As 32 people found out to their displeasure.

 

[motosapiens]

14 minutes ago, robertwyatt said:

As 32 people found out to their displeasure.

 

jiminy xmas! do people not talk to each other?!

 

we had 6-8 on our stage in 2013, and after the first day, most folks that came to our stage were *extremely* careful. Note that we weren't calling alot of marginal 182's either. Every call the gun was fully out of the holster and pointed fully 45 degrees up range.

[robertwyatt]

Just now, motosapiens said:

jiminy xmas! do people not talk to each other?!

 

we had 6-8 on our stage in 2013, and after the first day, most folks that came to our stage were *extremely* careful. Note that we weren't calling alot of marginal 182's either. Every call the gun was fully out of the holster and pointed fully 45 degrees up range.

And now you know why I was ready to walk off the stage. It was a challenging stage.

[Unibrain]

3 minutes ago, robertwyatt said:

And now you know why I was ready to walk off the stage. It was a challenging stage.

 

I've never had a stage that bad.  The worst was 3 shooters in a row at a local and I couldn't run the stage anymore as it got to me.  I can't imagine how you dealt with 32 in 3 days.  That's almost one per squad.