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Trying a L-n-L powder measure on my Dillon 650


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So my particular Dillon powder measure leaks anything close to fine grained powder all over. That, combined with my deep desire to go back to using a Lyman M-die has caused me to try the Hornady case activated powder measure. The leak is gone, powder throw is as good as the Dillon and I have my M-Die station..only issue I have is that the lever is heavier to operate. There are a couple of reasons I think. Every stage is now doing something....no more powder check loafing about. Also, the powder measure now has a spring on it and I'm lifting the entire measure an inch or so on every stroke...I think it all adds up to a heavier lever that I have to get used to.

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12 minutes ago, Boxerglocker said:

It would really help if you actually called out your station die positions. I assume your loading .223?

Nope, at this time it's 45 acp...which I load to 45 Super levels (185 gr @ 1350 fps).

Station #1 EGW undersize sizer die (which I'm testing and may be adding to the additional force needed)

Station #2 Lyman M-die...Love this thing! Perfect expansion and then belling and easy to set up.

Station #3 L-n-L Powder measure, no expansion, just funnel drop. It doesn't leak and seems to throw as accurately as the Dillon.

Station #4 GSI bullet feeder seating die/stem

Station #5 Lee FCD carbide taper crimp...prob going to change back to a Dillon.

I had to give up my powder check station, OUCH! but with the loads I'm using, double charging would overflow badly. 

So now you see that every station is contributing some work. Also, it' not possible to use the M-die with the Dillon measure because the Dillon needs to be at station #2 because that's where the arm is that clips on to the actuation rod. 

 

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I use a Lyman M die in my .223 processing on the 1050. In pistol though in the various calibers I have run on Dillon machines, I don't see the point. Especially if you are using a EGW undersize die then uniforming with a "M" you are working the brass to extremes.

 

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Well...when you use a bullet feeder it really likes to have an M-Die 2-step style expander. As far as working the case, the M-Die expands it less than the bullet going into it, no? The M-Die is at .449-.450 and the bullet is at .452. I'm just playing with the EGW die to see what it does to the lower part of the case.

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23 minutes ago, Smeeg said:

Can you list all the parts needed to make a LNL powder measure work on a Dillon? 

Not without knowing what you are going to try and load with it.

Just like the Dillon's they require specific parts for different calibers/cases.

Quote

 

Additional metering inserts and rotors (sold separately) to expand the use of the measure

This is where you start. 

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/290524/hornady-lock-n-load-powder-measure

Don't forget you lose the failsafe device that helps prevent double charges with one, when you do convert.

Edited by jmorris
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6 hours ago, Smeeg said:

Can you list all the parts needed to make a LNL powder measure work on a Dillon? 

1. The L-n-L powder measure

2. Case activated linkage

If you're going to do through expander charging you need the caliber specific PTX expander. 

That's it...

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That certainly is part of it...but I also think it's cumulative. Every die position is now doing something. I added the Inline Fab Ergo lever and it didn't lighten things up at all. It did improve primer seating feel by quite a bit. It also lets you sit or stand closer to the press. It doesn't sound like much but it is decidedly more comfortable rowing away on the lever and the handle is nicer to my hand.

The whole operation, while heavier, is decidedly smoother. I'm going to swap out the EGW undersize die for my Dillon and see where that leaves me. I believe that should, as you all have pointed out, drop the effort a fair bit on two accounts. The additional power needed to squeeze the case but also the additional resistance caused by the M-Die expanding a tighter case, both going in and coming out. 

I kinda like the Dillon floating decapping pin idea. It never seems to get out of alignment. I did replace the EGW/Lee decapping pin with one of those hardened tapered pins I have, it seems to center up quite well. Truth is neither one ever gave me any grief. 

I can see where the undersize die could really help some situations, just not mine. The 45 acp Kart barrel I have has a Clark/Para ramp and is fully supported. The cases never bulge, not even with the hot 45 Super loads I use,

All in all, the experiment has proven to be a workable success. The Hornady L-n-L powder measure lets me use an M-Die and has proven to be at least as accurate as the Dillon and is less clanky/clunky. It does cost me my powder check position though...I wish there was a solution to that. It gave a little piece of mind. 

For those considering this for a loading pistol ammo I would encourage you to get the pistol micrometer. Some claim it isn't any more accurate, and that may be but it certainly gives a finer adjustment and doesn't require using the lock ring to hold it. It makes a adjusting the measure much easier.

 

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Funny.  I just responded to your other thread asking if anyone ever moves the powder drop to station 3.  I use a Redding expander (it's a copy of the M-Die) at Station 2 AND a Hornady drop at station #3.  I couldn't be happier with it. ;) 

I didn't switch the Hornady because of problems with fine powder.  I switched to the Hornady drop because it throws more precise charges.

And AbitNutz is correct.  You don't need anything special to get the Hornady drop to work on a Dillon machine.  You buy the drop and the linkage.  

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Always use case lube, regardless of die type.  Personally, I throw about a thousand clean brass at a time onto a bath towel spray the pile with Hornady one-shot, then fold the towel over to envelope the brass, pick the towel up from either end, and cycle the ends of the towel up and down like I'm polishing a bowling ball.  Then open back up and let sit overnight before using.  

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I have some RCBS one shot type of spray lube that I use for most everything but haven't for this. I guess I will now. It's not like it's a chore...remember the glue like case lubes you had to apply by rolling it on a lube pad? Those were horrendously messy. Everything stuck to the cases...oxygen stuck to it..

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19 hours ago, AbitNutz said:

No I'm not but that's an idea. I'll give it a squirt of some and see if that helps.

now I'm even more cetain is the EGW die. without lube it will require a heap more effort.

get a aerosol can of the hornady one shot case lube. chuck around 200 cases into a large zipload bag, 3 quick squirts of the lube, close bag, shake em up, dump into collator. you'll be amazed at how smooth it is now. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/27/2016 at 2:09 AM, AbitNutz said:

1. The L-n-L powder measure

2. Case activated linkage

If you're going to do through expander charging you need the caliber specific PTX expander. 

For those considering this for a loading pistol ammo I would encourage you to get the pistol micrometer.

 

Thank you for any additional information you can dole out - I'm planning to try a Hornady powder measure on a 650 and want to see how I like it.

How does this shopping list look if I want to load 9mm on an XL650. Missing anything?

(I'd buy elsewhere. Midway was cheaper. But Amazon was fast to search and find a list of the parts.)

 

IMG_2335.JPG

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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4 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

How's my parts list look?

Missing anything or did I get it all?

Parts list looks good. You have all you need that will let you use L-n-L powder measure on a 650. The only thing I think you might look at is the use of the Double Alpha through powder expander for the L-N-L. It is a much better expander by an order of magnitude. You also pay for it...it's like 40 bucks. However, it's highly polished so it doesn't stick or shave the brass at all. This polishing is important enough that Starline brass offers it for free. You can send them your expander and they'll mirror polish it and profile it a bit. It is also stepped like a Lyman M-die, which makes seating  cast bullets a sweater operation. They make them for both the DIllon and the L-n-L. If I can't use a real M-die, I use one of the D/A's. 

One other thing about the L-n-L. It needs to be broken in before it weighs charges consistently. A good way to do that is to fill the hopper and drop powder till it's empty, maybe even do 2 hoppers full. If you just put it all together and start loading, the powder drops will be off enough from charge to charge to make you unhappy. Once broken in, it will extremely consistent. 

 

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See? Now *that* was useful information! Glad I asked.

DAA expander, it shall be.

No need to convince me of the merits of polishing it, either. My Dillon already looks like a mirror, which was worth it just to have it stop sticking in my brass when pulling the shellplate back down.

Edited by MemphisMechanic
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