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.40 vs .45 for Single Stack


rootacres

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I am considering making a switch to Single Stack for next seasons USPSA. This would be a fun project for the off season. So if I was to do it, it would be with the intention of shooting major full time. So my question is, which one is softer shooting? I know you can get 180 gr bullets in both calibers. In theory .40 is a higher pressure round than .45 so would that mean with both calibers loaded to make major the .45 would shoot softer. Anyone have more insight to this? I have only shot production with a big heavy cheater (Tanfo) gun chambered in 9mm. Thanks 

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The felt recoil for a particular load is a personal experience / quite subjective. When my wife started shooting IPSC / USPSA a few years ago I took her to the range with ammo in a combination of powders and projectile weights [titegroup, N320, N340, 180 and 165gr]. Doing 11 combinations what we found was that we didn't always agree on the level of recoil felt [softer, same, hard].

Would ammo / reload costs be a factor for you? If so the 40 is going to be a little cheaper to shoot.

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You can also get 200gr Bullets in both calibers too. Loading .40 with 200gr Bullets makes it feel identical to 200gr .45 loads, in my personal experience. Having shot Single Stack for the last 4-5 years almost exclusively, with most of the first 3 years being .45 caliber...once I switched to a .40sw Single Stack....id never go back to .45. The main reason is the fact that I can use the same load in all my Limited guns too. Now I only have to buy small pistol primers, I don't have to sort out .45 brass with different type primer pockets, and I can find tons of used .40 range brass for free.

From a recoil perspective, once the timer goes off I can't tell the difference on the clock. The only downside of .40 Single Stack is the relatively smaller selection of pistols and magazines to choose from. However, the choices that are out there are all high quality and it's relatively easy to get a good reliable setup in .40 now. If you think you might ever shoot Limited Division, I'd go with a .40 and not look back.

Hope that helps!

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For a given load common to both calibers, say 180gr, the 40 will have less actual recoil, because less propellant is required to reach the same PF.  I'm a 45 lover, but I shoot both.  Here is my take, not considering what Division you currently shot, or what you reload.

IMO, there is zero advantage of 40 over 45 in SS Major.  The differences in actual and felt recoil are minor for comparable loads.  Where the 40 confers an advantage is if you decide to shoot SS Minor.  The extra round in the mag, or the extra two if using Tripp modified mags is a very big advantage.  If you come from Production you already know how confidence inspiring those extra rounds are.  Plus, you approach the COFthe same way.

The 40 has a wider range of feed reliable bullets, and that allows you to tailor your load for the feel you like.  Light for fast cycling and snappy response, or heavy for slower and softer feel.

All of the above assumes you are starting from scratch.  I shoot 40 for Limited and Open (yes 40), but i personally would not use it for SS.  Why?  The only gun I own that is legal for SS is my second 1911.  Since all the gear I have for that is already legal, I'd use that rig rather than buying a complete second outfit.  If I was starting from scratch and wanted the option to shoot Minor if desired, it would be 40.

Edited by zzt
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Unless you are a beginner, stop worrying about 'soft shooting'. In my experience, 'soft shooting' is not the same as 'faster and more accurate', and this may be why most top level shooters prefer a bit snappier faster cycling gun. I'm nowhere near a top shooter, but I have shot alot of 9mm minor and 40 and 45 major over the last couple years in steel challenge, and it makes no difference in my times. In fact, my best times were with 45 major.

If you don't already have a 1911 in 40 or 45, I would tend to lean towards 40 just because brass is more readily available. There are other subtle distinctions, for example:

1. some 45 mags are harder to seat, but it is easy to find ones that are not hard to seat. like tripp or cmc.

2. you can barney load your first mag in 40.

3. On average, out of the box, it seems like 45's with RN bullets feed and cycle more reliably, but a quality 40 is likely going to work perfectly right off the bat too.

 

I personally shoot a 45 in SS, but only because I already had one. If I were starting from scratch I would get a 40 and call it good (and use the same ammo I run in my limited gun that I rarely shoot).

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Benefits to 40:

1. Cheaper/easier to find brass

2. Cheaper ammo

3. Use the same ammo in Single Stack and Limited

4. Fully loaded mags (8 rounds) seat easier than 8 rd 45 mags

5. No more sorting small/large primer 45 brass

 

Down sides:

1. Fewer factory-build guns to choose from

2. Possibly less reliable as the 1911 is designed to cycle longer ammo.  A well built gun will still run fine and you can always load 40 longer like mostly everyone does for 2011s.

3. 1911 snobs will make fun of you for not shooting 45 in "God's gun"

 

My next purchase will be a 1911 in 40.  I've shot a few matches with a 45 and really enjoy Single Stack for a change of pace sometimes.  I mainly want a 40 so that I can shoot the same ammo I use in my 2011s.

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Hello: Don't rule out 9mm for single stack. Soft shooting and cheaper to reload. Between 40 and 45 they are very close. If you can get cheap 45 brass I would shoot 45. If you can get cheap 40 brass I would shoot 40. I like 200 grain bullets for 45 and 180 grain for 40. One thing I like about the 45 is using 200 grain semi wad cutters. Love those big holes that I can see. I use 45 mags for my 40 so that is a wash. I prefer 9mm over 40 or 45 minor loads. So saying all that I would shoot 40 and try different weights of bullets to see what you like. I can get free range pickup 40 brass but not much 45. Thanks, Eric

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I started out SSTK with a .40 using my Limited loads. Ran flawlessly.

I picked up a Springfield Loaded Target .45 and it ran 230gr well, but needed tinkering to run 200gr SWC and I could never get 200gr Plated RN to run without velocity and tumbling issues using TiteGroup (my go-to).

If I could do it over, I'd stick with the .40

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This is one that is purely subjective as to the feel of the firearm. Several debates have been held on this forum and many other ages over the years. I personally use .45, and am mystified as to the crowd that prefers the .40. I think it comes down to two issues, "perceived" felt recoil, and which caliber you can bring back on target after the shot. This includes actually finding the front sight during re-acquisition.

For myself (only), I have used the .45 since Eisenhower qualified with one at basic training. I personally do not like the way a major .40 recoils as compared to a major.45. Again, that is really subjective, and you can use descriptions such as push, muzzle rise, the twisting motion in the hand, and on and on. The quick snap of the .40 to me is not nearly as easy to bring back on target as the .45. Other .40 shooters believe there have been lingering effects from the 60's of certain chemical ingestations (alleged), and I am out of my mind.

Cost is a bit of a factor, but .45 brass is still everywhere, a quick search here has it priced $90 per 1K for .45, and $80 per 1K for .40. In the case of say Blue Bullets, 250 of .45 is $29, while .40 is $25. Powder is basically a wash unless you use N320 in the .40, but still, for a match you may not buy your famous Foo foo coffee if the budget is tight in order to make up the cost of .45 versus .40.

I shall stay with the dinosaur club of SS and L10 shooters who like the.45. If you can, go to the range and fire the .45 and .40 at the same practice session. What ever feels right to you will be the correct choice, you really cannot go wrong here. Now, as to the 9MM, I need the points......always shoot major in my humble opinion, except for revolver.

 

 

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3 hours ago, mont1120 said:

 Now, as to the 9MM, I need the points......always shoot major in my humble opinion, except for revolver.

the extra 2 rounds are often more than enough advantage to make up for losing a few points. (except at SS nationals).

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This is the perfect excuse to buy/build 2 new guns............one in 40 and one in 9mm to really play the game. You choose which caliber depending on the stage design and the advantages that a certain caliber will give you.  Then you will really piss of the old timers who complain about any 1911 not in .45acp as you must really be a gamer.

If buying/building 1 new gun is a good thing then buying/building 2 should really be a better thing...........besides, you will be helping stimulate the economy by buying more and keeping Americans at work!!

As to brands.........just about every sponsor of our sport builds a 1911 in both calibers. It all really depends on your budget and what you want to spend. For the right price, you can have one of each pretty quick from many quality manufacturers. If you are willing to wait, I do know this company that will build you your dream pistol.........(www.sviguns.com). Just saying....

Best Wishes on your new endeavor this upcoming season.

Regards,

Roy Neal

Team SV Infinity

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2 hours ago, motosapiens said:

the extra 2 rounds are often more than enough advantage to make up for losing a few points. (except at SS nationals).

I found this to not be true for me.  I can reload faster than I can shoot A's, but I do think this is one of the most intriguing parts of SS division, as it seems to be the only division where there is not a definite choice for major/minor for everyone.  And since I am a major only guy, and they are more available and seem to be more reliable out of the box, and I don't shoot limited (except with my SS gun sometimes), I like 45s,but  that is just me.

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I have no religion about .45, I just happened to have a lot of brass and so that is what I reload and that's what I compete with.

If you want to go the minor/10-round route in single stack, .45 ACP is a no-go because while you can shoot soft .45 loads, you'll then probably be in minor territory (any .45 loads I consider soft are minor, so far) and 10-round .45 ACP single stack mags won't fit in the box (none that I know of anyway).  You could shoot .45 minor and stay with the 8-round mags, but then you might as well be shooting 9x19mm and get the 2 extra rounds, because if you shoot 9mm minor, the 10-round mags fit in the box.

I guess one of the the arguments for .40 S&W is that you can easily load major or minor and there are some 10-round mags that fit in the box.  Flexibility.

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1 unplanned standing reload costs as much as 8-10 charlies.

OTOH, it still comes down to execution. I have shot alot of both the last few years, and my results seem to be very close, like within a couple percent. I chose exactly the wrong one for two different major matches, and still did just fine at them.

Edited by motosapiens
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2 minutes ago, GunBugBit said:

I guess one of the the arguments for .40 S&W is that you can easily load major or minor and there are some 10-round mags that fit in the box.  Flexibility.

unfortunately it doesn't seem like those 10-round 40 mags actually work 100% reliably. Besides, the whole point is to own MORE guns, not fewer. 

Edited by motosapiens
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Tripp Research 10mm 10 round system magazines run flawless for me. They are tuned with different springs and followers then standard Tripp Research Cobra magazines. Virgil and Aaron at Tripp Research are great to deal with. They stand 100% behind the product they sell.

Edited by bjones6686
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