Correct Striker Fired Technique

[Pistolpete9]

Alright fellas, this might seem a little remedial, but I'm not a striker pistol kind of guy.  I have a few friends who are trying to learn to shoot better and I'm not quite sure how to teach them.  

Here's my dilemma:

Everyone talks up the advantage of having the same trigger pull every time with the striker fire guns.  Unfortunately, everyone that I know that shoots them rides the reset.  In doing so, they are basically turning it into a DA/SA gun.  It works.  I can actually shoot a plastic gun pretty well using this form of firing.  However, it isn't the same trigger pull every time and is probably not the way the pros do it.  

They seem to be riding the reset and doing okay with it.  Should I start them over and teach them to fully release or are any of you riding the reset and finding that it works just as well?

 

[waktasz]

There's no reason to fully release the trigger on those guns between each shot, BUT, slowly releasing the trigger to find the reset point and then shooting from there is too slow. There is a middle ground.

[Pistolpete9]

Yeah, that makes sense.  I just figured with all of the "same trigger pull every time" stuff that I constantly see, people were letting it all the way back out.  Maybe I'm reading in to that too much.  Just trying to make sure that I'm not reinforcing any bad habits.

[EliteGuard]

Basically what waktasz said above. Some striker fire guns have a really long take-up and I don't know about you, but I have seen numerous people have problems shooting accurately if they don't get rid of that take-up first. If you fully release the trigger each time you are going to be fighting this.

If you release exactly to the reset point each time then you have to slowly release to find the reset. If you try to rapid fire then you may accidentally pull too early.

I personally release just a bit past the reset point so when I am rapid firing I don't have to worry about possibly not releasing far enough to engage the reset. You don't want to have to think each time about how far you have to release the trigger or how much take-up you have to get rid of.

[MemphisMechanic]

Two trigger pulls because you let off the trigger? Err... hrmmm?

Unless you include taking the slack out or prepping the trigger as  a different pull, I'm going to have to disagree. 

Background: I cut my teeth on Glocks up through IDPA Master and then switched to the M&P and USPSA roughly at the same time, so striker guns are all I've ever shot with a timer running.

There's three ways you can handle a striker fired gun:

1. Riding the reset. When the shot breaks your attention goes to finding the 'click' in your trigger. This teaches you to work with the reset but it results in trigger-freeze when faced with multiple hoser targets and the shooter tenses up.

2. "Slapping" the trigger. Coming totally off the trigger so that you either hit the front of the trigger guard or come most of the way out toward it... between shots. Eventually most of us find ourselves having learned to do this on close easy targets. Surest way to prevent trigger freeze - and you can be pretty abusive with your trigger press at ten feet on wide open USPSA torsos. 

3. Prepping the trigger between shots. This is how I shoot everything that isn't "trigger slapping" distance. The finger comes out well past the reset point into the slack portion of the trigger press, and begins prepping the trigger again before the front sight returns. I want to be back in contact with the sear and finishing my trigger prep before I have cleaned up the sight picture and need to fire my next shot. Unlike releasing until you hear/feel it reset, you're acting instead of waiting for a click to react to.

I am absolutely certain that I drive my trigger differently depending on the difficulty of the shot. 

I assume what you meant was that there are different ways to handle the same trigger press, but a striker gun always has the exact same feel to the trigger between contacting the sear (the reset point) and breaking the shot. It's all in how you game it and deal with that pretravel that messes with SA shooters heads.

For reference my Glock was mostly stock minus trigger and striker spring, with a 3lb 8oz trigger and factory travel.

My M&P is a little sportier, with a 2lb 9oz trigger and about half the reset travel of factory due to an internal overtravel stop.

Edited October 18, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[Flatland Shooter]

MemphisMechanic, what kind of spit times can you get with #2 and #3?

Thanks.

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, Flatland Shooter said:

MemphisMechanic, what kind of spit times can you get with #2 and #3?

Thanks.

First, I'm just some scrub running around with the As and Ms in Production at my locals, then getting curb-stomped at majors. You're not getting GM-level advice here and I'm not trying to pose as one. ;-)

The first four targets shot after the reload at 1:04 are "index on center of A and slap away":

 

Side note: I threw away points in the form of 5A 3C on those four close targets at 1:04 instead of collecting 8As. Not because I "shot too fast" but because I wasn't watching the sights. At all. They were in my line of sight, but I was only barely tracking them peripherally. If your grip and vision are dong their job then those should be A's as fast as you can work the trigger - which means you can and should be able to shoot more accurately without slowing down.

The longer targets on that stage are shot with a prepped trigger. The difference is fairly apparent, I think.

Edited October 18, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[arkadi]

Nice touch - timing the RO to fall out of start position

[Pistolpete9]

Thanks for the advice Memphis and nice shooting.  Pretty good footwork.

I guess my thought was that pulling against that take up in the first shot is different than just pulling from the reset point, but I see what you're saying and it gives me exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks again.

[Flatland Shooter]

Good video.  And an excellent example of splits between near and far targets.  Thanks.

[CaptainOverkill]

When I was shooting a Glock I started out "riding the reset".  When I started doing a lot of dry fire practice, I put something in the breach to keep it out of battery so I could press the trigger multiple times.  Doing this means there is no break or reset - just pressing the trigger against the tension of the trigger return spring and letting it go forward.  One day I realized I was no longer using the reset, but instead just running the trigger as fast as I could while letting it out far enough to make sure it reset.  I was able to shoot 0.11 splits on close hoser targets doing this.  In my experience f you're trying to feel the reset, you're going to slow.

[grapemeister]

Mike does one of the best jobs in explaining the press, prep, and reset process.  Check out this video.

 

[BoyGlock]

7 hours ago, CaptainOverkill said:

When I was shooting a Glock I started out "riding the reset".  When I started doing a lot of dry fire practice, I put something in the breach to keep it out of battery so I could press the trigger multiple times.  Doing this means there is no break or reset - just pressing the trigger against the tension of the trigger return spring and letting it go forward.  One day I realized I was no longer using the reset, but instead just running the trigger as fast as I could while letting it out far enough to make sure it reset.  I was able to shoot 0.11 splits on close hoser targets doing this.  In my experience f you're trying to feel the reset, you're going to slow.

This. Went the same route and been ok with it. Just havent reached .11 splits. But it was fast n accurate enough for me. Im in 2011s now

[CaptainOverkill]

16 minutes ago, BoyGlock said:

Im in 2011s now

Me too. I was faster at hosing with my G35, but in match-type situations my hit factor is better with the 2011. I'm sure the speed will come with more practice.

 

0.11 splits weren't "every time, on demand" either. I could easily do .13-14s and sometimes drop down to .11-12. Not that splits mean much in terms of match performance.

[BoyGlock]

8 minutes ago, CaptainOverkill said:

Me too. I was faster at hosing with my G35, but in match-type situations my hit factor is better with the 2011. I'm sure the speed will come with more practice.

 

0.11 splits weren't "every time, on demand" either. I could easily do .13-14s and sometimes drop down to .11-12. Not that splits mean much in terms of match performance.

I shot glocks in ipsc production, std and open divs. before I went 2011s. After some years in 2011s I feel now there was nothing inadequate in Glocks for std and open. My only beef was in Open I prefer 38s over 9 maj. so I had to go 2011. The trigger technique in glock as you mentioned is the right and most appropriate in my opinion. As in 2011s, I dont feel for the reset and dont pause at sear engagement and release. My glock technique actually was carried over to my 2011. Once my tr finger moves rearwards it doesnt stop unless Im shooting a difficult and/or hi risk target in which I pause a bit just to be careful with the sight pic and trigger release. 2011s or glocks, my system is the same.