Stock 2/3 Extreme FP Block Question

[ryridesmotox]

2 hours ago, ElMateo487 said:

 

This. USPSA Production national champ was on a Limited Pro, with no bolo, no fancy hammer, and a 13 pound hammer spring, and no patriot defense springs.

 

That stuff wasn't released until, what... 4 months ago? 

There is no way a high level competitor is going to change anything during the season or before a match. Logic fellas.

Edited October 17, 2016 by ryridesmotox

[MemphisMechanic]

1 hour ago, ryridesmotox said:

That stuff wasn't released until, what... 4 months ago? 

There is no way a high level competitor is going to change anything during the season or before a match. Logic fellas.

Goes back to our point - the amazing new parts coming out are terrific and are worth the $$ (I'm about to purchase a full compliment of PD springs.) But they won't make you a GM and they aren't necessary to be fast & accurate.

Edited October 17, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[johnbu]

That's exactly how I shoot !

 

Except.... I'm like lots slower and miss....a lot.

[ElMateo487]

That stuff wasn't released until, what... 4 months ago? 

There is no way a high level competitor is going to change anything during the season or before a match. Logic fellas.

Logic. The dude won without any of them. Kinda the point. Not to mention, I asked him last week, and he isn't running any of the PD stuff.

Not downing on the parts, I am saying, in Gutt's case, none of it is necessary on a Tanfo.

[billthemarine2862]

5 hours ago, ryridesmotox said:

How much did your buddy pay for that cz? The custom shop guns aren't cheap last I checked.

He paid 1k for it.  He got it for a crazy price. The trigger is really nice but, I like the length of the stock 3 better.  I shoot a TS normally and the shadow/stock 2 is just too short for me.

[billthemarine2862]

5 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Just don't kid yourself about how much the World's Best Trigger matters in the overalls when the match is over. There's not much difference going to be found between it and a "pretty damn good"  trigger when the timer is ticking.

Chasing it for fun is fine. As long as it's for fun, and not something you feel is mandatory to be able to compete well!

Back in my Glock days, I got trigger-focused and tried a dozen variations on Vanek kits and ZEV components and found all kinds of way to make a Glock stop working. Then went back to the - connector and an aftermarket trigger spring and left it alone and practiced until I won those highly coveted 1st Place IDPA Master plaques at a few state matches. 

That is very well said.  I am doing this for fun.  I tend to obsess about it but, it truly is just a hobby.  I enjoy talking about this stuff because the longer I talk about it, the less time I spend screwing up my gun parts.  I ruined several parts when I was starting to do my own work because I didn't do enough research and ask questions.  I only have 2 competition guns  and I don't want to run out and get a custom gun because I shot one today that is for sure.

I have no illusions about my shooting skills.  I am not going to be winning my local matches any time soon.  

I just like to see how much I can do on my own, and it is nice to have something to compare it too.  If I can't win the match at least I can take pride in my gun, and show people quick fixes/mods if they ask.  

[billthemarine2862]

1 hour ago, ElMateo487 said:

Logic. The dude won without any of them. Kinda the point. Not to mention, I asked him last week, and he isn't running any of the PD stuff.

Not downing on the parts, I am saying, in Gutt's case, none of it is necessary on a Tanfo.

 

2 hours ago, johnbu said:

That's exactly how I shoot !

 

Except.... I'm like lots slower and miss....a lot.

Ya the whole point of this thread was to figure out what combo of parts would work without buying anything else.  I have blown more than enough already.  I have a 1 piece sear and I am fitting it for fun but, if it doesn't work with the OEM FPB I am putting the 2 piece sear back in the housing.

I need to be buying bullet parts so I can practice more. I have shot a whole 10 matches.  I miss lots, and I specialize at finding creative ways to screw up a stage.  

No matter what I will not be upgrading this gun until after the holidays.

[ryridesmotox]

16 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Goes back to our point - the amazing new parts coming out are terrific and are worth the $$ (I'm about to purchase a full compliment of PD springs.) But they won't make you a GM and they aren't necessary to be fast & accurate.

I agree, and I said as much on this thread or another one. But I would be surprised if these grand masters are shooting anything as it comes from factory. I don't know about it making me faster and more accurate, I'm faster and more accurate with my stock2 than with any other gun I own. I know part of that is the ease of the trigger. I do have a few guns to compare: 1911, a Sig, a S&W performance center revolver, and an H&K. So it's not like I'm running around with old clapped out com block surplus guns. 

Are these sorts required for one to shoot GM? No idea, I'll let you know after I do it, then I'll get an OEM stock2 and try the classifiers all again to see. But I can tell you, without parts like these, it makes it much tougher. My speed is my downfall... I have an arthritic hip, I am more tortoise than hare these days.

It's up to people how they want to spend their money... With my most recent stock2 it started at just over 9lbs trigger as I recall in DA, and like 4lbs something in SA... Phenominal imho for a factory fresh gun. Polish and a 13lbs hammer spring and it was down to 6lbs DA and like 3.5lbs SA. The thing is... These guns are so random it seems with QC... My newer one looked like the internals were machined by a 9 year old in a sweat shop. But for some reason it pulled better than my other stock2 in factory form which had much cleaner machining on the trigger bar and sear cage. Some of these guns absolutely need parts to be competitive... My first stock 2 had like 6lbs SA and a 12lbs DA. Terrible for a "competition" gun... Maybe they are putting better springs in them now or something, but the newer one certainly pulled nicely.

16 hours ago, ElMateo487 said:

Logic. The dude won without any of them. Kinda the point. Not to mention, I asked him last week, and he isn't running any of the PD stuff.

Not downing on the parts, I am saying, in Gutt's case, none of it is necessary on a Tanfo.

What was he running in it? It wasn't a factory gun... If it was, I'll eat my shorts.

[MemphisMechanic]

Probably worked over by Jim Bodkin, if I had to guess.

Until a year or so ago, gunsmiths were the only headache-free way to get good triggers in these. Now that they're popular (because the gun is winning a lot and supply caught up with demand) we are seeing a lot broader "home tinkerer" knowledge base. Xtreme parts don't have to be bought directly from France. Patriot Defense is making some seriously cool stuff and you can call a guy to learn how to fit it.

My original point was that if you put a few months of obsessive practice behind a gun with a "polishing and springs" trigger with a tiny bit of takeup and creep... and do the same thing with $250 worth of PD and Xtreme parts to have a 1911-like single action... there's not going to be a difference found in how you place at a match with either gun.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tinkering and I'll be buying the parts too. But they're not mandatory in order to have good scores at matches. It's just fun to work on guns.

Edited October 17, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[SCTaylor]

3 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy tinkering and I'll be buying the parts too. But they're not mandatory in order to have good scores at matches. It's just fun to work on guns.

Quoted for posterity and the truth.

[ElMateo487]

What was he running in it? It wasn't a factory gun... If it was, I'll eat my shorts.

Haha. Didn't mean to make it sound like he was running factory. Just wolf springs, and a clipped FP spring. And probably a bunch of polishing.

[MemphisMechanic]

Practice > widgets.

 

 

[MissionaryMike]

4 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Practice > widgets.

 

 

But widgets are fun.

[ryridesmotox]

Widgets are the best part of mechanical things... Tinkering to get the advantage, within the rules (mostly).

[johnbu]

But practice + widgets > practice ..

 

Lol

my gun was 12+da out of the box.  With loads of stacking. But had I just used it as it was and developed excellent trigger control with that crappy trigger, I would be a better shooter...or I would have sold it off.

28 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Practice > widgets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ElMateo487]

But practice + widgets > practice ..

 

Lol

my gun was 12+da out of the box.  With loads of stacking. But had I just used it as it was and developed excellent trigger control with that crappy trigger, I would be a better shooter...or I would have sold it off.

I read somewhere, that Gutt used heavier triggers to train when he was young and he ended up better for it. But yeah.... mine was 12 pounds too. I don't know if that's what they meant. Lol

[johnbu]

I watched Gutt shoot 7 stages.  He's very good. Not just fast and accurate shooting, but he seemed to KNOW the most efficient route.  Noticeably shorter times with less movement and more alphas.

[ryridesmotox]

I train with a h&k p2000 with the garbage LE trigger. After that piece of junk trigger, anything feels good.

[billthemarine2862]

I often practice with my sig 226 TACOPS. Only mods are the reduced reach trigger, 16# main spring, and G10 grips.  It is a great gun in its own right but it is set up for home defense.  The short reset trigger is nice but even in SA it is heavy.  After a couple of hundred rounds of that my Tanfo trigger feels like a puffy cloud.

Edited October 18, 2016 by billthemarine2862
Grammar fixes

[norbs007]

On 10/15/2016 at 9:11 AM, IronArcher said:

That said, I'm running a 1 piece sear, and my stock FPB works perfectly with both the stock and Henning firing pin (whatever generation was sold in January this year....5?)


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Same here, Stock 2,3 and LimPro with Titan hammer and stock FPB.

[nunez]

Did a class with Ben Stoeger this past weekend. He runs a 13-pound hammer spring and a 10-pound recoil spring. Dryfired his gun and nothing magic, but his SA was nice due to being broken in. I'm over messing with these guns to eek out every ounce in the trigger. I'll be running a 13 PD Hammer Spring and an 8 pound recoil spring and be done with it. 

[bulm540]

LOve the 8 pound recoil spring in my 40 minor. 

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, nunez said:

Did a class with Ben Stoeger this past weekend. He runs a 13-pound hammer spring and a 10-pound recoil spring. Dryfired his gun and nothing magic, but his SA was nice due to being broken in. I'm over messing with these guns to eek out every ounce in the trigger. I'll be running a 13 PD Hammer Spring and an 8 pound recoil spring and be done with it. 

If Ben runs a 10-lb recoil spring, why do you seem certain you'll be using an 8? Currently running it and liking it?

[bulm540]

Did run a 10# In my stock 2. Gun seem to dip when gong back into battery. Replaced with an 8# and it is night and day difference. Gun feel is pretty subjective, What may work for me may not work for you. 

[nunez]

3 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

If Ben runs a 10-lb recoil spring, why do you seem certain you'll be using an 8? Currently running it and liking it?

I'm testing it out, but seems right for now. I ran a 6lb on the first day of class and it felt sluggish at times. Put in the 8lb and it feels great so far. Will see.