Average first shot . 22 rim fire

[dmshozer1]

Gun touching table first shot time on 12 yd 8" plate.

My average is a hit in .80 sec.

Cmore, 12 moa dot, Ruger 22/45, good trigger.

Good? Bad?

How do I improve?

[photoracer]

That was what I was doing about 4 years ago when ramping up my shooting. I found I could do the first shot in .8 without a miss every time and could do .6 but with a miss in about one of three. Now if I roll back the timer on some runs I find in extreme cases I have done .38 first shots, likely from anticipating the buzzer, but normally around .55-.6. When you compare that to watching Max do .7 from the surrender position on a draw it tells me that there is always room for improvement (my draw time is more physically limited than my low ready time).

Human reflex time runs around a .2 peak or a little slower in general (mine was tested at .172 at LASL in 1965 and only one person tested faster up to that time). But as some top shooters have said you want to try to get that first shot off before the buzzer stops on a low ready (that is the goal anyway). Assuming a 1s buzzer that is doable (if shorter maybe not). Its exactly like drag-racing. In a match you want to make sure you don't miss that first shot so you should shoot a hair slower. Sometimes I try to detect if the RO is doing a consistent cadence before he presses the button so when I get to a stage I sometimes mentally time what he does with the other shooters, like when the 1B coach in baseball times the pitcher's move to the plate to see if there is enough to give his runner a jump to steal a base.

So I was taught to find your 100% hit time then practice going faster until you can get a faster 100% time. Its very incremental, measured in improvements in hundredths of a second or more at best. That also means working on the physical aspects like arm strength and speed, eye speed, and eliminating anything that can slow you down. Theoretically holding gun closer should make your time a little faster as it has less distance to travel (and I think your arms can get better leverage slightly cocked as opposed to straight out)

Edited October 6, 2016 by photoracer

[dmshozer1]

1 hour ago, photoracer said:

That was what I was doing about 4 years ago when ramping up my shooting. I found I could do the first shot in .8 without a miss every time and could do .6 but with a miss in about one of three. Now if I roll back the timer on some runs I find in extreme cases I have done .38 first shots, likely from anticipating the buzzer, but normally around .55-.6. When you compare that to watching Max do .7 from the surrender position on a draw it tells me that there is always room for improvement (my draw time is more physically limited than my low ready time).

Human reflex time runs around a .2 peak or a little slower in general (mine was tested at .172 at LASL in 1965 and only one person tested faster up to that time). But as some top shooters have said you want to try to get that first shot off before the buzzer stops on a low ready (that is the goal anyway). Assuming a 1s buzzer that is doable (if shorter maybe not). Its exactly like drag-racing. In a match you want to make sure you don't miss that first shot so you should shoot a hair slower. Sometimes I try to detect if the RO is doing a consistent cadence before he presses the button so when I get to a stage I sometimes mentally time what he does with the other shooters, like when the 1B coach in baseball times the pitcher's move to the plate to see if there is enough to give his runner a jump to steal a base.

So I was taught to find your 100% hit time then practice going faster until you can get a faster 100% time. Its very incremental, measured in improvements in hundredths of a second or more at best. That also means working on the physical aspects like arm strength and speed, eye speed, and eliminating anything that can slow you down. Theoretically holding gun closer should make your time a little faster as it has less distance to travel (and I think your arms can get better leverage slightly cocked as opposed to straight out)

Good Information,

Thanks

[photoracer]

I brought an engineering mind to shooting. Everything can be analyzed, as long as you stop when the buzzer goes off.

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

[dmshozer1]

Just now, photoracer said:

I brought an engineering mind to shooting. Everything can be analyzed, as long as you stop when the buzzer goes off.

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk
 

I agree,

My intentions are perfect until the beep sounds!

Keeps a smile on my face. When that stops I will try something else.

For the last twenty years or so, I have been smiling.

[photoracer]

I brought an engineering mind to shooting. Everything can be analyzed, as long as you stop when the buzzer goes off.

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

[jkrispies]

I'd say that your times are excellent, especially with a pistol.  My suggestion to find your true time, though, would be to move the plate around a bit--first on center, then a few yards to the left, then a few yards to the right--just to make sure that you're "really" shooting it and not just working off muscle memory.

I almost never check my splits, so I'm not sure of mine, but last month with a Rimfire Rifle Optic I filmed myself in competition doing a 1.80 Smoke and Hope.  When I ran it through Shot Coach, the sound diagnosis indicated that I shot the first plate before the buzzer finished.  I just looked at it again and it appears to be about a .34 off the first shot (the buzzer was probably somewhere between .35 and .4) but I'm not very good with the Shot Coach program so I could have that split wrong.  Today on S&H I got a 1.82 and 1.76, and then on Roundabout (closer to your scenario in the OP) I did a 1.90 and 1.92 that might still be on the buzzer given those times, so it's possible to do it more consistently than just on accident, but I'm certainly not doing it every time I step to the line.  

I practice specifically on my reaction to the buzzer, which I'm sure helps.  

Edited October 10, 2016 by jkrispies

[photoracer]

Those times are right in the ballpark of my best times also, 1.75s for S&H, and 1.95 for both Roundabout and Showdown with RFRO. I am not quite as good with RFPO as the best of those times are in the 2.0-2.1 range.

Edited October 10, 2016 by photoracer
spelling error

[johnbu]

0.8s is a good time in a match, but not spectacular. From low ready a 0.65 is very competitive.  obviously, some drive that down to 0.5. 

How is simple.  "Beep! Bang! ping!" Repeat, repeat repeat.  Have a coach, film, review, modify, repeat repeat repeat. Dry fire with a par time as 0.5 every day to force explosive fast motion accelerating and stopping so hard you fear torn muscles.  Then weekly shoot as many as you can afford on the single shot drill and 2 target drill.  At least 100rnds each drill. Record all times and splits going for .5-.6 first shot .7-.8 on the two target drill. Then repeat as an accuracy drill with mandatory 100% hits.  In 2 months you should be at 0.65s first shot and 0.8-0.85 total on the 2 target drill with 95-98% hits.  I would say to use the normal plates for the speed training, not the reduced size 8" plate. Don't teach your "fast brain" to over aim and waste time.

 

I coach on a scholastic pistol team that shoots simplified SC stages.  These are some of the training points we cover.

On 10/06/2016 at 9:00 AM, dmshozer1 said:

Gun touching table first shot time on 12 yd 8" plate.

My average is a hit in .80 sec.

Cmore, 12 moa dot, Ruger 22/45, good trigger.

Good? Bad?

How do I improve?

 

 

 

[jkrispies]

21 minutes ago, johnbu said:

Dry fire with a par time as 0.5 every day to force explosive fast motion accelerating

I was doing this but it got to where I couldn't distinguish the gap between the first and second beep. Might just be my old ears.  Now when I'm dry firing for reaction time I do it on at least two plates (always full size if space allows) and make the par fast enough that I need a super fast reaction to make the time. If doing this I'd recommend alternating the plate arrangement (ie, both to the left, both to the right, one left then reverse to right, etc) so you don't fall into the trap of simply building muscle memory.  

Edited October 16, 2016 by jkrispies

[johnbu]

 I get lazy and don't really rip the gun hard unless pushed.  That short par helps push to keep moving hard and fast. I've been making gains, but need work on accuracy.  I pull off too soon and need to focus on visual patience. :(

 

 

Edited October 16, 2016 by johnbu

[MrDanCheck]

The little monster is about .7 -.8 @ 15yards on 7inch steel.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[johnbu]

^  if you lived I. West central Wisconsin, I'd want her on our team!

[photoracer]

What I used to do a was a modified Bill Drill with either rifle or pistol. Low ready single target 6 rounds. I got down to about 1.47s in 2012 (.22 rifle). Part 2 was low ready to double tap 3 targets in a non-linear array (none in the same plane). Got that down to 1.51s. Started out around the high 2s range. I was told by a long time student of Todd Jarrett that the idea was to get both times to be the same or very close. To be able to transition the gun fast enough so that the transition time is still within your trigger time speed. Obviously if you start moving the targets farther apart that doesn't play.

I watched a video of Colby Pavlock the other day where he was shooting a 7 plate array with three big ones on each end in a triangle array touching each other and a single stop plate in the middle. the big plate arrays were about 20 feet each side of the stop plate. He shot a 1.55s run. I think he was shooting rimfire rifle irons also as he is the master of that. By the way he won the NSSF Rimfire Challenge world title again for the second year in a row this last weekend in Alabama.

Edited October 18, 2016 by photoracer
info

[Frozen]

I had the honor of shooting on kolby squad at the world championship , wow that young man has talent ?