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PCC SWEEPING


Sarge

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So, the rules a slung PCC is the same as a holstered gun, except for sweeping.

i interpret that to mean any time a PCC muzzle sweeps somebody ITS A DQ.

Correct?

Two shooters on my squad last weekend slung their PCC. I lost count of how many times they swept every person on the squad.

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supposed to have chamber flags i believe 

 

PCC 5.2.1.4 Pistol caliber carbines may be transported or stored without a slip or case, whether or not reasonably vertical, in a mobile rack or carrier as long as a chamber safety flag is used.

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That's how I see it.

PCC 10.5.2.1 Failing to point the muzzle at a side berm or back stop during casing or uncasing, or sweeping any person with the muzzle of a PCC, whether loaded or not, even if a chamber flag is inserted.

 

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Kevin, that's why I don't sling it. Too easy to sweep someone. I am also carrying it to and from the cart muzzle down so as not to accidentally muzzle sweep when I bend over to pick up my ULASC round. Slings are not needed, and I think should be removed when the permanent rules are done.

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2 hours ago, OPENB said:

Kevin, that's why I don't sling it. Too easy to sweep someone. I am also carrying it to and from the cart muzzle down so as not to accidentally muzzle sweep when I bend over to pick up my ULASC round. Slings are not needed, and I think should be removed when the permanent rules are done.

I agree. If we are sensitive to sweeping with a flagged PCC, then slings just present too high a risk of sweeping the shooter or others on the range. Furthermore, slings create the opportunity to hang up on the shooter or stage props, increasing the chance of a safety infraction. Getting rid of the sling option entirely simplifies things wonderfully.

Personally, and coming from the 3-Gun world, I don't see a huge safety problem with declaring a flagged long gun to be "inert" in the same way as we treat a holstered handgun. However, we PCCers are guests at USPSA handgun matches, and so we owe it to our hosts not do things that make them uncomfortable.

Edited by StealthyBlagga
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As the rules permit. They were more or less reasonably vertical muzzle down pointing about 5 feet away from them. Just enough to sweep everybody who went anywhere near them.

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I've also been swept by slung PCCs, both two weekends ago and last weekend.  The shooters seemed oblivious to muzzle direction as they talked about their gun and how much they enjoy shooting it. 

I'd also vote for no slings.  They don't serve a real purpose in USPSA and folks seem to take them off when doing weak hand transitions. 

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On 10/4/2016 at 10:27 AM, StealthyBlagga said:

I agree. If we are sensitive to sweeping with a flagged PCC, then slings just present too high a risk of sweeping the shooter or others on the range. Furthermore, slings create the opportunity to hang up on the shooter or stage props, increasing the chance of a safety infraction. Getting rid of the sling option entirely simplifies things wonderfully.

Personally, and coming from the 3-Gun world, I don't see a huge safety problem with declaring a flagged long gun to be "inert" in the same way as we treat a holstered handgun. However, we PCCers are guests at USPSA handgun matches, and so we owe it to our hosts not do things that make them uncomfortable.

Wow, this is perhaps the most well thought out and reasonable response I've read from a PCC advocate yet. 

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46 minutes ago, Jmob50 said:

Chamber flag inserted, it's a stick! I don't see the issue. Another thing I like about 3 Gun, alot of shooters call it the big boy rules for a reason.

You may consider it a stick, 3 gun rules might consider it a stick, but USPSA PCC rules do not consider it a stick. If we are talking strictly rules here, then it's a DQ.  

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46 minutes ago, Jmob50 said:

Chamber flag inserted, it's a stick! I don't see the issue. Another thing I like about 3 Gun, alot of shooters call it the big boy rules for a reason.

If you can't (or won't) point the muzzle where the rules direct you to, big boy or not you shouldn't be handling the gun around other people.

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4 minutes ago, Patrick Scott said:

You may consider it a stick, 3 gun rules might consider it a stick, but USPSA PCC rules do not consider it a stick. If we are talking strictly rules here, then it's a DQ.  

Which rule are you speaking of specifically?

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49 minutes ago, Jmob50 said:

Chamber flag inserted, it's a stick! I don't see the issue. Another thing I like about 3 Gun, alot of shooters call it the big boy rules for a reason.

I shoot 3 gun primarily, both outlaw and 3GN. I don't consider sweeping with a flagged gun okay, and neither do any of my squadmates. I once ended up on a "big boy rules" squad. I brought the rules infractions to the attention of the MD and was rewarded with bad scoring calls from the RO the rest of the day. I love 3 gun but stupid people can really ruin a match quick.

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So since the "best practice" guidelines allow slings and if you get close enough to someone you can be swept, then the shooter should be DQ'd right? Even though the shooter isn't doing anything to physically sweep someone right? So if the gun is in a cart the same applies?

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But he is doing something, if he allows his muzzle to sweep someone. Let's not ruin this experiment before it has a chance to succeed. Slings serve no purpose in PCC in USPSA. I believe that is true for 3gun as well. I'm shooting PCC & I vote DQ as well. 

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6 minutes ago, Jmob50 said:

So since the "best practice" guidelines allow slings and if you get close enough to someone you can be swept, then the shooter should be DQ'd right? Even though the shooter isn't doing anything to physically sweep someone right? So if the gun is in a cart the same applies?

If we are following the rules, any sweeping is a DQ. Do I agree? Maybe, maybe not, just speaking to the rules. 

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Haha! If you can't admit that you're wrong then by all means, revert back to grade school. Carrying a slung rifle is considered the equivalent to a holstered pistol, period. Ask whoever you like. Unslinging(if that's a word) and slinging is another story but the OP said that people were being swept if they got too close

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5 minutes ago, Jmob50 said:

Haha! If you can't admit that you're wrong then by all means, revert back to grade school. Carrying a slung rifle is considered the equivalent to a holstered pistol, period. Ask whoever you like. Unslinging(if that's a word) and slinging is another story but the OP said that people were being swept if they got too close

I'm just going by the rules for the division as written. I don't understand the confusion or the reason for your personal attack. Take care. 

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