New to Reloading

[Livin_cincy]

Greetings,

My birthday present to me is going to be a reloading press.

I do not shoot a great deal.  Typically I shoot a box of 50 at an indoor range each week.  Occasionally I will go to an outdoor range for a day.  Cost and availability of ammo controls things.  So my desire to reload is to control those two items.  So with my best guess I can figure 100 rounds per week average if I double my current level.  This is a low production level.  So technically a single stage and spending an evening would work to satisfy my needs.  But it will require diligence to spending an evening to stay supplied.

So i looked at turret presses.  The Lee Cast Turret is 150-200 per hour.  So I can crank out 300 in an evening and be good for couple weeks.  Of course... that is 1,200 pulls.  Cost is low to get set up in my two pistol calibers.  So that is attractive.

I watched numerous videos on how to get your Hornady AP to work and realized how it will always be chasing down issues to get thru a session.  It seems very hit and miss on how it will work when you unbox it.   It would bother me to have be concerned about the press so much.  So I decided no to the Red One.

RCBS is a bump up in price that I cannot justify.   So I ruled out their Progressive ones as being far to much press for me. So I said No to the Green One.

Then there is the Blue One.  I can't justify more than a 550's level of production.  So at 400 per hour I would only load a caliber every other month.   That seems like more press than I could ever need.

I found a common thread in various locations on the internet. I see " Buy more press than you think you need " as a common piece of sage advice.   It seems everybody has a collection of presses as they progressed from one end to their present one.  The 550 will produce 3-4x the ammo of an LCT based on (4) cases being worked on with each lever pull.

So I ran some numbers.  I took into consideration the future value of a Dillon 550 vs a LCT.  

• I looked at ten years down the road.  
• I figured that inflation would bump new prices by 1.5% each year.
• I conservatively estimated a used 550 to have 75% of new retail if I wanted to sell over night.
  • I see some say 80-85% is typical. But I wanted to be conservative.
• I put the LCT at 50% resale and that could be high.
  • This could be as low as 33%. But I wanted to be conservative.

Well... Over a 10 year time the Lee Cast Turret press would cost about $40 more to own.  I included nothing for replacement parts on the Lee.  I also negated the interest income on the initial purchase of Dillion over Lee as the money sits in the bank. So then it comes down to which press will be more pleasurable for those ten years ?   I think even the Green & other Red Press folks would say Dillon 550 over Lee Cast Turret.

I notice many have a second single stage press for depriming and other case prep work.  The LCT would be excellent repurposed for this.  So I am back to thinking the LCT would serve all my needs now and in the future should I decide to buy it.   Or am I going to be staring at a press I rationalize having instead of a spare toolhead on my Dillon 550 ?  I am seeing that a good case prep session with a dedicated toolhead creates a reason to clean the Dillon good so when I seat primers during loading it works flawless.

Your thoughts ?

[eern]

I think that you think to much. ha.  I have never broke any decision down this much.  Good for you.  Go with the Dillion or Hornady LNL you will be a lot happier in the end.

[Sarge]

IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, Dillon is 10 times the quality of any LEE machine. 

 If you are never going to load rifle I would recommend the Dillon SDB. If you even think you might do rifle someday I recommend the 550 

[Sarge]

Are you in or near Cincinnati? 

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you're loading pistol only, get a SDB for $390, plus a chrono for $70, tumbler for $100, scale for $70

extra set of dies (extra caliber) for c. $100 - plus a caliper for $25, and you're all set to go - total price

is $750.

Also, load up on powder, primers and bullets before Nov 8.    

If one of your calibers is a rifle, get a 550.    

[Livin_cincy]

Yes I am !

[M1A4ME]

I've loaded on a single stage press for about 40 years now. 

I recently bought one of the Lee Classics (the cast iron/heavy duty model) and some extra 4 hole "plates" for it.  I haven't set it up yet, so I can't say much about it other than I know it'll save me time.  The plan is to put 9MM dies in one plate, .40 S&W dies in another plate, .45 acp in another plate and then use the last plate for .223 and 308 dies and disable the mechanism so nothing rotates.

I figure that way it'll save me some time on die set up.  And that's all I bought it for.

I batch load.  I may resize 2 or 3 hundred cases, or more, in one sitting.  If they're rifle brass I'll toss them back in the cleaner to remove the case lube.

I'll use a few minutes some pretty morning or evening after I've walked the dogs (and petted them and fed them treats) to prime 2 or 3 hundred pieces of brass.  Some other day I'll sit down and put the powder and bullets in them. 

I can't tell you how long it takes to load my ammo because I don't sit down and go from just fired case to freshly reloaded case in a single session.

I don't begin to load, or shoot, as much ammo as some folks.  I shoot enough to get things figured out (reliability, sighting in a new gun/scope/optic and shoot a few groups.  Takes time to do that right.  We (nephew and I) spent 3 hours at the range Saturday.  I put 10 rounds through my old Pre B CZ 85 at 25 yds. (never shot it at 25 yds. before) and I shot twenty rounds, or so, through my AR15 to get it zeroed at 100 yds. and try out a couple different powder types/bullet types, too.  I'm not sure how many rounds he shot, but it was probably close to 50 or 60 rounds (I think he likes the smell of burnt gun powder).

I've got Lee dies, Hornady dies, RCBS dies and Redding dies.  Haven't worn any of them out yet.  I do like those RCBS X dies for rifles though.

I like my RCBS powder measure better than my Lyman powder measure (more consistent charges).

I like my Lee hand priming tools.

I use an RCBS scale.

I have a Frankford Arsenal vibratory case cleaner (the first one last so long I bought another one when it finally died).

I've used the Lee case trimmers, but when you buy more than one in the same caliber you'll find you get different length brass.  Evidently the little pilots are not as consistent in length as they need to be. 

I just can't justify (to myself) spending money on really expensive reloading equipment when spending that money on primers/powder/bullets gives me ammo to shoot.

Too each, their own.  Or as we used to say in the Army, "whatever trips your trigger."  Just make sure you buy some good manuals and follow their advice on working up loads.  Stay attentive to what you are doing and what the sounds/feels during the process tell you and you might find an issue at the reloading bench vs. at the shooting bench.

Good luck, it's a rewarding hobby.

[SWprotected]

The LEE classic turret press is a great little press. It will produce 150 -200rph, and they are not very expensive. I bought one and have never had any trouble with it and loaded 15-20k on it, but when I got to shooting that kind of volume a progressive became the better choice. From a learning standpoint the turret is a good choice because only one thing is happening at a time, you may find this helpful. I am certain if you buy a turret press you will eventually upgrade to a progressive, but the turret press will always be useful for load development or running small batches of ammo. Having more than one press is not a bad thing. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[inspector1999]

The LEE classic turret press is a great little press. It will produce 150 -200rph, and they are not very expensive. I bought one and have never had any trouble with it and loaded 15-20k on it, but when I got to shooting that kind of volume a progressive became the better choice. From a learning standpoint the turret is a good choice because only one thing is happening at a time, you may find this helpful. I am certain if you buy a turret press you will eventually upgrade to a progressive, but the turret press will always be useful for load development or running small batches of ammo. Having more than one press is not a bad thing. Good luck with whatever you choose.

I second this.

Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk

[Butters]

5 hours ago, Sarge said:

IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT, Dillon is 10 times the quality of any LEE machine. 

 If you are never going to load rifle I would recommend the Dillon SDB. If you even think you might do rifle someday I recommend the 550 

Agreed. I recently turnd Blue over Red a month ago. A Loadmaster was in my house and I got so tired of needing to tinker with it to keep it running right. Buy once cry once as I sold the LM for probably half what I had in it. 

 

Kudos to you for breaking down the finances like you did

[thejez]

get the dillon. its your birthday after all.

[Ray_Z]

The rock chucker master reloading kit is the way I'd go if I were just starting. In the future, after you have some experience under your belt and after you shoot more, you can go to a Dillon progressive press. You will never get rid of your rock chucker. The additional leverage is a plus in doing things like forming one case from another and resizing military cases that were fired in machine guns to name a few.

[Glock021]

7 hours ago, Ray_Z said:

The rock chucker master reloading kit is the way I'd go if I were just starting. In the future, after you have some experience under your belt and after you shoot more, you can go to a Dillon progressive press. You will never get rid of your rock chucker. The additional leverage is a plus in doing things like forming one case from another and resizing military cases that were fired in machine guns to name a few.

 

+1 on the Rock Chucker kit.  That's a great place to start, and like Ray said, you will never get rid of it even if you do upgrade to a progressive.

 

[johnbu]

The real question is why you only shoot 50 rounds a week! Lol. 

I have lee single and toadmaster progressive.  Everyone should have a single stage.  it's pretty easy to run 50 completed rounds in an hour without rushing. I'd say, start with one.  After a year, you will know more and will have a better idea of what you want.   in that time, save a buck or two a day in a coffee can and you'll have a good chunk to buy a faster press.

 

 

 

 

[Ray_Z]

17 hours ago, Ray_Z said:

The rock chucker master reloading kit is the way I'd go if I were just starting. In the future, after you have some experience under your belt and after you shoot more, you can go to a Dillon progressive press. You will never get rid of your rock chucker. The additional leverage is a plus in doing things like forming one case from another and resizing military cases that were fired in machine guns to name a few.

Oh Yeah, I use it most when I'm trimming a batch of rifle cases  with the Dillon RF1500 case trimmer.. You are resizing the brass as you are trimming. All that leverage makes the job go easier.

[PCKLST]

I went with the 550 years ago and never regretted it. It is amazing how loading for one caliber turns into two, three, ect. and with the 550 you will be covered for what ever your shooting needs may progress into. And their no BS lifetime warranty is great.

[Livin_cincy]

I made the decision and went with the Lee Classic Cast Turret press.   It is as simple as a single stage to operate.  I like how the primers fall vertically down and out of the way like on a Redding Big Boss 2 press.  I just don't shoot enough at this time to use the volume that a Progressive produces.`

• http://leeprecision.com/4-hole-classic-turret-press.html

Using the Dillon Precision website 'Break Even Calculator' http://dillonprecision.net/break-even-calculator/ :

• LCT = $250 for two Pistol Calibers.
• Dillon 550 = $700 for two pistol Calibers { only (1) powder measure }

So when I put in the numbers for two pistol calibers with tool heads, shell holders and dies I can pay off a LCT in 16 months verses a 550 in 44 months. 

I will have to spend an hour pulling the ram with the LCT vs 30 minutes on the Dillon each month.  Even doubled it is a tolerable amount of time on a laundry night. In 44 months reloading with the LEE will have saved me about $800 when I factor in the original price difference.  Enough to buy a 550 or 650 if I am wanting to start shooting 500 per week.  I can also use the Lee as a single stage for rifle and case prep work for the rest of my life.

The real clincher was Brownwells / Sinclair Warranty:
"100% Satisfaction Guarantee on Everything We Sell
If you aren’t completely, 100% satisfied with any purchase you receive from Brownells, for any reason, at any time, return it for a full refund or exchange. No hassle, no problem. And, we won’t bog you down in endless paperwork. Your complete satisfaction with each and every product we sell is what’s most important to us."
 So they have a 'Dillon' type Warranty and I can always get my original investment back if I decide LEE is a good door stop.

They also had many of the items I had to buy to start up reloading on sale. Plus they were running a 5% sale with free shipping with a code.  

I went to Graffs & Sons to get some items out of stock or not sold on the Brownwells' site.   I bought the Dillon 3 poise scale from them.  I like the 3 poise vs the 2 poise of RCBS, Hornady & Lyman.  It looks easier to read to me.  

Edited October 9, 2016 by Livin_cincy

[ddc]

I started with a Lee Classic Turret. It is a machine that does an excellent job based upon it's price point. I now have a Dillon 650XL.

If you are truly going to shoot 50/100 rounds a week then the Lee may be the better of the two based upon" bang for the buck". The overall effort (4 pulls per loaded cartridge x 50/100 cartridges) is reasonable.

But at some point, number of rounds per week,  you will exceed the effort that is reasonable to you. 4 pulls per loaded cartridge just becomes a little too much.. for me that was around 150/200 rounds a week. (That was also the point where my wife started to shoot IDPA and then USPSA...lol) I then caved in to the conventional (BLUE) wisdom and got the 650.

I am so happy that I did. What was becoming drudgery has now become a "oh gee, I need 200 for the match...and ... ok... done... what else do I need to worry about...".

And if I had realized sooner I would have switched sooner so maybe change that 150/200 rounds per week threshold down a bit...

 

 

 

[carlspeed]

I started with a 650. I still have it, and I love it. It's not a big deal to crank out a couple hundred rounds so I have enough to take someone else with me. When I do go to the range on personal time, I shoot at least 200 rounds. I can load for an hour and have enough cartridges for a couple range times.

[Livin_cincy]

Here is an update photo.

I reload on laundry night.  I average 250 per hour.  It matches up to be more than I shoot. 

I like the single case at a time.  I am new so I like watching just one case  and knowing what each station feels like when I pull the arm.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Livin_cincy

[huafist]

I have  LCT - I can crank out 200+/hour of pistol. Rifle takes longer because you have to prep the brass, of course. I love it, I think it's a great machine for the price.

[Ray_Z]

On 12/7/2016 at 4:22 PM, Livin_cincy said:

Here is an update photo.

I reload on laundry night.  I average 250 per hour.  It matches up to be more than I shoot. 

I like the single case at a time.  I am new so I like watching just one case  and knowing what each station feels like when I pull the arm.

I can only wish that my loading area looked that good. It would take my 4-6 hours to even get it close. Oh, and by the way, quit looking at how much production you can get out of a press. Thing of reloading as part of shooting. Winter is the time when I get to catch up on the calibers I'm running low on. When it's butt freezing cold outside I got something to keep myself busy.

[Livin_cincy]

12 hours ago, Ray_Z said:

I can only wish that my loading area looked that good. It would take my 4-6 hours to even get it close. Oh, and by the way, quit looking at how much production you can get out of a press. Thing of reloading as part of shooting. Winter is the time when I get to catch up on the calibers I'm running low on. When it's butt freezing cold outside I got something to keep myself busy.

Thanks Ray.   
I have about 3,000 homeless bullets on the shelf I plan t give a home to this winter.  I like the 'zen' time of reloading. It is relaxing for some reason.  I enjoy the working out loads aspect a great deal. Adjusting the COAL, bullet and powder to match the gun is enjoyable. Seeing groups tighten up on range day is addictive.

I use the soak method to clean my brass. I have my size & deprime dies in a turret together. So I drop that turret in the press and disable the auto index and run like a single stage. Then I clean them.  Since I am not depriming when I load I have a hole empty. So I bought a Hornady Bullet feeder. So now i just drop a bullet in the top of the die instead of seating it on the case. I only get 4-5 rounds per minute. 

My bench is about 4ft long. It is a white desktop from Ikea.  So I have to keep it neat to use it. It is on top of some 3/4" pine boards that are supported on each end between the walls. Under the press is a 2x4 L bracket going to the back wall.

The press is mounted to a 1" thick bamboo cutting board from Ikea. I installed brass threaded inserts into the board and bolted the press to the board. The board is then clamped with a very long C-clamp to the bench. No flex or movement at all. When I want to clean guns I just slide the press to the far end or hang it on the wall.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Livin_cincy

[Ray_Z]

Oh, BTW, I lived on the West side [Bridgetown, Mack] for better than half my life. Looked outside the deck doors one morning and saw snow half was up and decided it was time to move south.

[Livin_cincy]

12 hours ago, Ray_Z said:

Oh, BTW, I lived on the West side [Bridgetown, Mack] for better than half my life. Looked outside the deck doors one morning and saw snow half was up and decided it was time to move south.

One can just claim West side citizen ship without answering Goldstar or Skyline ?