What should I get now Cz ts or a shadow or a limited witness

[busdriver02]

If you're working your way up to competition, first thing is to just go. It's way less intimidating in reality than your imagination.

Just take whatever you shoot now, they'll help you. You'll get a better appreciation for what direction you want to go after you shoot a match or two.

[Bullets]

16 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

Like Mark said, if there's not a scoring advantage like in USPSA Limited, 9mm is a better round: cheaper, more capacity, and more flexible.

Yes 9mm is cheaper and has more capacity but as for it being more flexible and better? I tend to not agree. 9mm can only be shot as minor in that type of gun. .40 can be shot in major and minor for ipsc & uspsa. Granted he hasnt said he is looking to to shoot uspsa or ipsc yet but that is how it starts. I have met a ton of people that bought cz, tanfo, sti, glock, m&p, etc in 9mm. Then got into shooting uspsa and then regret buying the 9mm. They were then stuck buying a new gun to shoot in major. I know everyones use for pistol os different. My point is that these guns are specifically designed for uspsa limited division and the standard division in ipsc. Hence the name "limited" on the tanfo and the description of the ts on cz website. Considering that is what they are designed for, in my book, .40 is the way to go.

[kneelingatlas]

I shoot 9 major out of a TS in Open

The first USPSA gun I bought was a TS in .40 for Limited, then in short order I converted it to 9mm, added a dot/comp and started shooting it in Open.

I see your point that a Limited gun chambered in 9mm, cannot shoot Limited Major, I'm just not a big fan of Limited; it's like Open, but not as fun!

[Bullets]

1 hour ago, kneelingatlas said:

I shoot 9 major out of a TS in Open

The first USPSA gun I bought was a TS in .40 for Limited, then in short order I converted it to 9mm, added a dot/comp and started shooting it in Open.

I see your point that a Limited gun chambered in 9mm, cannot shoot Limited Major, I'm just not a big fan of Limited; it's like Open, but not as fun!

Well thats a whole different animal. I dont even wanna ask how much it cost to convert the gun to open. Probably would be cheaper and easier to just buy a czechmate at that point. Open is the only class that allows 9mm for major though. That doesnt apply to an iron sight limited gun. I personally like limited. Not entirely the same as open without a red dot. Open is allowed a compensator which helps a ton when getting the gun to shoot flat.

[craigkim]

I have now had a CZ TS, a Cajunized CZ SP-01 Shadow, and a CZC Accushadow Black... all in 9mm.  I got the Shadow first and found it to have potential but I didn't like the feel of the trigger all that well despite the customization.  I also didn't think the workmanship was all that great on it and I hated the short throat/chamber.  Then I got my TS.  I liked everything about the TS, except my hands just didn't fit it very well. So, I bought an STI Marauder 2016 Shot Show edition and it was worlds better than either.  A few weeks back though, I decided to try a 2016 CZC Accushadow Black and I really like it.  I shoot it almost as well as the STI.  I really like the SRT and the parts/fitting/machining are excellent and much better than my original Shadow were.  I didn't think that the Accushadow would be much more accurate than the first Shadow I had, but I could never shoot my first Shadow on par with the STI and this is really close.  The STI has capacity and a better trigger, but it was also the same price as a pair of TS's +, so that makes sense. 

[motosapiens]

On 9/27/2016 at 7:13 AM, kneelingatlas said:

I'm just not a big fan of Limited; it's like Open, but not as fun for really old people with bad eyesight.

fixified.

[Gooldylocks]

On September 27, 2016 at 5:53 AM, Bullets said:

Yes 9mm is cheaper and has more capacity but as for it being more flexible and better? I tend to not agree. 9mm can only be shot as minor in that type of gun. .40 can be shot in major and minor for ipsc & uspsa. Granted he hasnt said he is looking to to shoot uspsa or ipsc yet but that is how it starts. I have met a ton of people that bought cz, tanfo, sti, glock, m&p, etc in 9mm. Then got into shooting uspsa and then regret buying the 9mm. They were then stuck buying a new gun to shoot in major. Or, they suck it up thinking that they can just get better and make minor work for them in Limited. Then a year later they buy a new gun. I know everyones use for pistol os different. My point is that these guns are specifically designed for uspsa limited division and the standard division in ipsc. Hence the name "limited" on the tanfo and the description of the ts on cz website. Considering that is what they are designed for, in my book, .40 is the way to go.

I completely agree.

 

On September 27, 2016 at 6:13 AM, kneelingatlas said:

I shoot 9 major out of a TS in Open

The first USPSA gun I bought was a TS in .40 for Limited, then in short order I converted it to 9mm, added a dot/comp and started shooting it in Open.

I see your point that a Limited gun chambered in 9mm, cannot shoot Limited Major, I'm just not a big fan of Limited; it's like Open, but not as fun!

Converting a TS to an open gun would probably be at least 1500 bucks on top of the gun. I have serious doubts that someone who is looking at a budget limited gun is going to want to dump that kind of money into building it into a less than ideal open gun (in my book, a TS for open is just way too heavy, but then again I don't like metal 2011 grips so....).  The only division that a 9mm TS makes any sense at all to me is.... 3 gun? It's not IDPA legal, and shooting minor is a joke and a half in limited. 

And while limited and open are similar, they are completely different for one big, obvious reason: irons. That totally changes the game. 

 

My handful of change

[Pistolpete9]

I disagree that a 9mm TS is useless except in 3 gun.  Limited minor can absolutely be effective.  It is certainly more cost effective and in lower levels of competition, it shouldn't hold you back. It also makes for a pretty decent Steel Challenge gun. Unless you plan on shooting USPSA at a very high level or if you didn't already have a different gun IDPA, I'd say the 9mm TS is a very sensible gun.

As an aside, I still contend that USPSA is going to have to wrestle with what to do with major/minor scoring again very soon.  The entire world has taken notice that the 9mm is plenty effective when compared to the .40 and it just doesn't make sense to award it differently in their scoring.  Why push people to train with a round that is likely to become less and less popular otherwise?  Power factor is a bit of a joke ( don't believe me?  do the math on the power factor of .223 vs. .40)  One of many fixes that USPSA needs to look into.  When they do, the .40 crowd is going to be upset, but your 9mm will start to make even more sense.

[Bullets]

21 hours ago, Pistolpete9 said:

I disagree that a 9mm TS is useless except in 3 gun.  Limited minor can absolutely be effective.  It is certainly more cost effective and in lower levels of competition, it shouldn't hold you back. It also makes for a pretty decent Steel Challenge gun. Unless you plan on shooting USPSA at a very high level or if you didn't already have a different gun IDPA, I'd say the 9mm TS is a very sensible gun.

As an aside, I still contend that USPSA is going to have to wrestle with what to do with major/minor scoring again very soon.  The entire world has taken notice that the 9mm is plenty effective when compared to the .40 and it just doesn't make sense to award it differently in their scoring.  Why push people to train with a round that is likely to become less and less popular otherwise?  Power factor is a bit of a joke ( don't believe me?  do the math on the power factor of .223 vs. .40)  One of many fixes that USPSA needs to look into.  When they do, the .40 crowd is going to be upset, but your 9mm will start to make even more sense.

There is a big difference in recoil between shooting a 9mm factory round and .40 factory round. That is exactly why the power factor is in place. 

As for a 9mm ts being a decent steel challenge gun? Not really in my honest opinion. Too big and heavy. Generally steel challenge guns are smaller than the ts and light weight. You wanna be able to transition as quickly as possible and a heavier gun wont help with that.

[Pistolpete9]

Well I'll just agree to disagree.  Again, at a very high level, you're probably correct.  At most levels though, having such a soft recoiling gun will counteract the heavy gun during transition.  I know that I can easily put up a sub 10 second Smoke & Hope with mine and I'm not a great shooter.  I can transition much quicker with a Glock, but I'm not good enough to control the Glock at that speed so my times actually are slower.  Us non national level shooters typically need some extra weight to help us shoot faster.  

As for the difference in recoil, I agree.  However, most people aren't shooting factory AND the difference in terminal performance isn't a big difference. So why would our sport choose to push for a round that has a "big difference" in recoil but doesn't have a "big difference" in performance?  Perhaps we should call it macho factor.  I would be impressed with the abilities of a person who could blast through a course with full house .50AE loads, but I don't know that I would think about his intelligence.

All of that being said, I don't think the TS in 9mm is the "best" choice for all of these things.  Not sure that any single gun is.  However, I do think that it is a sensible gun that can do most everything a 2011 can do and can do it at half the price without any major tuning or anything.  I get tired of hearing that there are only about 3 options for shooting pistols "if you want to compete".  95% of shooters will probably never enter a regional match let alone a national match.  Whatever gun they like in major or minor is what they should shoot, because they are shooting for fun.  We do our own sport a disservice when we try to push everyone into the same exact set ups and shooting styles.  I have never had more fun than my outlaw matches, but a lot of people in the community would frown on that and say I'm not a real competitor.  I guess what means is "Shame on you for trying to make this sport about having fun.  It's supposed to be about proving how manly you are within very limited confines of defining that."  I shoot every match trying to be better than I have before.  That's where the most fun is and how I think the sport should be.  Just my opinion and I have no idea how I got on this bunny trail.  My bad.  The OP already bought a TS in .40 and I doubt I helped make the decision

Bullets is right about many of the things he said.  I'm just offering a counterpoint and noting that any pistol can be a sensible choice if it fits what the shooter wants to do.

[sigsauerfan]

in your  situation i'd  get  the TS in 40  best  out of  the box  40  for the money  ;  awesome trigger  ,awesome  accuracy,  quite  reliable  if  it wasn't  for the  slide  stop  thingy.

 

also, if  ever  you  decide  to  get into some uspsa  match, scoring wise  40 is  the  way to  go  in limited  which  is  exactly   the purpose  of  this  gun.  you can  either  shoot 40  major  or  minor, in minor  mode  it  recoils  like  a  .22., very  flat  shooter .

 

the only downside is you must  '''drive''''    the  gun in transitions  due  to  his  weight , but with some training it isn't  a  factor.