9mm minor load data

[Nick179]

Looking to start loading extreme bullets 147gr RN with CFE pistol powder. I use factory sig elite ammo which is 115gr at 1.155 OAL.  Just need it to be 126-130 PF. Thinking of starting at 3.4gr and moving up a tenth.  

[CZ85Combat]

CFE is a slow burning powder, , better suited for major loads.  If you want  126-130PF look for fast burning powders. A lot of  competitors use  N320 & Titegroup.  some use, HP-38/W231,  WST, Bullseye, Red Dot. Using fast burning powders allow you to use smaller powder charges to get the same PF.  when you use less powder you get less recoil.

[Hi-Power Jack]

1 hour ago, Nick179 said:

 Thinking of starting at 3.4gr and moving up a tenth.  

You can save some trouble and bother by going up by 0.2 grain increments -

0.1 grain doesn't do much.     

[Nick179]

Ok thanks for the info. I was given 2# of CFE but I'll save that for 40 major. I might have some titegroup lying around I'll give that a shot. 

[36873687]

TG n320 universal all great minor 9 load. I've used extreme  180 in 40 it took a lot more powder to make major. Start safe an work your way up

[BallisticianX]

For 9mm minor in production guns my go to is TG. It was Accurate, consistent, and soft with 124's. I admittedly never tried it behind 147's though. I will mention TG is best suited for plated or jacketed bullets in the 9mm. When I was developing TG loads with Hi-tek coated lead pills it was very inconsistent and accuracy was not so good. It also seemed to lead the bore pretty well. Something about TG with lead in the 9mm just doesn't work well. Take the same bullet with WSF, HS6, or bullseye and it didn't lead and shot fine. This anomaly seems to be isolated to the 9mm as something with high pressure small capacity cases and TG burn temp/characteristics behind lead is not agreeable. TG behind a Hi-tek coated lead pill in the 45 ACP was superb and my usual 1911 load for best accuracy. 

I also want to give honorable mention to HS-6 for Minor 9mm. It was a consistent powder with great accuracy. For a slower powder it is soft shooting. It is my definite go to if you run minor with a comp for 3 gun, the HS-6 actually delivers gas to the comp with 125-130 pf loads so it actually utilizes said comp.  

[9x45]

Nick, I've been using TiteGroup since it first came out, mainly because it was the cheapest powder you could get back then. I currently run 124 HiTek coated Bayous on top of 4.5 grains at 1.100" OAL. Well over the minor floor, but have never experienced any leading at all, even with OEM Glock barrels. I used to run moly coated lead with the same load, and it was terribly leaded. In fact my blood lead got to 23, and after 4 months of Bayous, it dropped to 8, and is now at 6, about the same as guys running total jacketed bullets. You still get some lead from the primer, unless you go non toxic, but those are hard to fine and are not as reliable. I would say the HiTek coated bullets are just as good as the Montana Gold JHPs in my 8 Glocks, and I have run the 124 Bayous to over 1,500 fps thru my G31s. Never had any luck at all with plated bullets in Glock 9mms, either OEM barrels or aftermarket,  but lots of guys say they run good. I think it depends on your particular gun.

 

By the way, moving your charge up .1 grain doesn't change anything. Dillon powder throwers go at least +/- .1 grains for sugar powders, like TG, and up to +/- .3 grains for corn flake powders. I go .3 grains at a time.

[Nick179]

Thanks for all the good info, I'm gonna put together some loads next week and give them a try. 

[thejez]

On 9/19/2016 at 6:10 PM, CZ85Combat said:

CFE is a slow burning powder, , better suited for major loads.  If you want  126-130PF look for fast burning powders. A lot of  competitors use  N320 & Titegroup.  some use, HP-38/W231,  WST, Bullseye, Red Dot. Using fast burning powders allow you to use smaller powder charges to get the same PF.  when you use less powder you get less recoil.

this was a very helpful post, thanks.

[PCKLST]

I have run thousands of 135grn Blue Bullets over 3.2gn of TG with a 130 PF with really good results. Running a G34 with stock barrel.

[Nick179]

Thank you for all the replies. I've been super busy at work the last couple weeks averaging a 120 hours a week so as soon as I get some free time I'm gonna try some new loads.  Need to take the OT check and order my XL 650 too. 

[Steve RA]

130 gr LSWC with 3.2 Clays 1008 fps.  This in Win cases with Tula SRP in a 5" 1911.  Coated bullet of near same weight could be substituted.

[valerko]

4g CFE and 147 Acmes gives about 135 PF. Works great for me and lot cleaner then TG 

[abb1]

On 19/09/2016 at 5:10 PM, CZ85Combat said:

 Using fast burning powders allow you to use smaller powder charges to get the same PF.  when you use less powder you get less recoil.

I have never heard of this as I was always thought to believe that perceived recoil was due to pressures inhibited upon the bullet exiting the barrel. Grains of powder should not make a difference if the pressures are the same or less for the slow burning powder. I could be wrong, but I am just looking at this from a technical perspective. From the Hodgdon reloading manual, it has a 124gr bullet loaded with 3.6gr of TG going at 957fps exerting 27,700psi. Using a 124gr bullet with CFE Pistol with 4.9gr of powder, the velocity is 1006fps, using 27,300psi of pressure. In this case it does not make sense that a slow burning powder has more recoil than a faster, from technical data. If anything, it shows that the fast burning powder has MORE RECOIL as it would generate much higher pressures to sustain the same velocity

Slow burning powders are used for minor loads due to cost efficiency, not recoil efficiency. Basically, that means that in a pound of powder, you can load 1944 rounds of 9mm in TG, as compared to only 1428 rounds of CFE Pistol.  Slow burning powders are mostly used for major or magnum loads as they can push much higher velocities with less pressures. Due to the slow burning of high pressure loads it also provides less leading when using lead bullets. If you use a fast burning powder to the max with a lead bullet, you will receive much more leading than using a slow burning powder.  I hope this helps!

Edited October 9, 2016 by abb1

[CZ85Combat]

Do a search of this forum, you will find a large volume of post of peoples results from testing fast V slow powders.   the overwhelming conclusion is fast powders with heavy bullets produce the least amount of perceived recoil for a given PF.  You might even find a video or two that documents the difference.   Fast powders have a fast pressure spike that drops off fast, slow powders have more of a push as the powder burn curve is slower.

[Nick179]

All good info, I'm gonna have to do some real testing and see what my gun likes best and hopefully get some good data for here. 

[CZ85Combat]

I can tell you for a fact that when I went to a very fast powder in my AR9, I also had to use a lighter recoil spring in order for the bolt to lock back.

Look forward to your data.

Edited October 10, 2016 by CZ85Combat

[Nick179]

So I tried this load in my 4.7" sig p320. 147gr berrys RN with 3.2 grains of TG loaded to 1.100". The gun did not like them at all. Very inconsistent groupings and recoil was "slow" seemed the slide wasn't cycling fast enough.  Ended up going with 3.8gr of TG with a berrys 124gr target hollow point loaded to 1.130". Best groups and function of the loads I've made. Averaged 127PF in 40* temps and felt really good on double taps. 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Nick179
Ignore the 1.150" didn't change it for this group

[Banacek]

On 2/9/2017 at 9:34 PM, Nick179 said:

So I tried this load in my 4.7" sig p320. 147gr berrys RN with 3.2 grains of TG loaded to 1.100". The gun did not like them at all. Very inconsistent groupings and recoil was "slow" seemed the slide wasn't cycling fast enough.  Ended up going with 3.8gr of TG with a berrys 124gr target hollow point loaded to 1.130". Best groups and function of the loads I've made. Averaged 127PF in 40* temps and felt really good on double taps. 

What program are you using to print the data in this format?

[TitoR]

That's how the Caldwell chronograph app for iPhone saves the data


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Nick179]

1 hour ago, Banacek said:

What program are you using to print the data in this format?

 What TitoR said. 

BTW I changed to a different load. 3.6gr of TiteGroup with a 125gr Black Bullets International and a COAL of 1.100" running a 14# recoil spring also. 

[bandw1dth]

 What TitoR said. 
BTW I changed to a different load. 3.6gr of TiteGroup with a 125gr Black Bullets International and a COAL of 1.100" running a 14# recoil spring also. 

What’s the smoke, accuracy and pf like on that load?

[Nick179]

On 9/25/2017 at 4:56 PM, bandw1dth said:

What’s the smoke, accuracy and pf like on that load?

 Smoke is the same. Not so noticeable outdoors but indoors shows the cloud. Accuracy is same if not better, PF has been 130-131-130-129-130 at the majors this year. 

[bandw1dth]

 Smoke is the same. Not so noticeable outdoors but indoors shows the cloud. Accuracy is same if not better, PF has been 130-131-130-129-130 at the majors this year. 

Much appreciated my good sir

[IDescribe]

On 9/19/2016 at 5:24 PM, Nick179 said:

Just need it to be 126-130 PF. 

 

You'll likely be shooting with an extreme spread that big and will never notice the difference when you have a 4PF swing from one round to the next.  Don't get tricked into thinking chasing the PF floor is going to help you.  You'll never notice the difference after the shot timer chimes.  Pick your bullet and powder and work up a load to somewhere between let's say PF 130 and 138, looking for the most accurate load.  And that's your best load.  That's your pet load -- not the softest, but the most accurate in a reasonably soft range.  Recoil management comes from grip and stance, and grip, and stance, and a little more grip.  Shaving off a few foot-pounds of muzzle energy will give you a false sense of accomplishment in the short run, and it's great for impressing your shooting buddies "Feel this.  Ooooh.... aaaahhh...." but it's worth diddly squat under the clock.