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Need help getting faster


rustychev

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I need to get faster but not sure how.  I'm shooting 93.12% of possible points shooting SS major and am getting my but kicked by guys shooting the stages in 75% of my time.  What drills should I be doing to work on foot speed and getting in and out of shoot positons.  I think that is what I need to work on as my splits are at about .26 sec.

 

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It's all in movement, and position entries and exits. If the people that are beating you are shooting stages in 75% of your time then they aren't shooting faster than you. They are doing everything else during the stage faster. Practice drills like call it and leave it, reloading while running, just do some wind sprints... practice already coming around a corner aiming down the sights at where you have memorized the target to be. Shoot as soon as the target appears.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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It's hard to tell where you are losing time without video or more information. Saying you have .26 splits literally means nothing to me as a coach, it's too vague. I'm not prepared to say you aren't losing significant time shooting.

Regardless, the answer is to practice going faster. The secret to leaving position efficiently is calling your last shot and then exploding without hesitation. For entering position efficiently, the goal is to shoot at the earliest moment possible.

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2 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

WOW !!!

93% and .26 seconds sound GREAT to me, esp with SS major :)

How quick is your draw and 1st, 2nd shots?

Reloads?

My draw is 1.6 at 10 yards with the second shot at 1.85 to 1.9  reload is about 1.9/2.0

1 hour ago, Jake Di Vita said:

It's hard to tell where you are losing time without video or more information. Saying you have .26 splits literally means nothing to me as a coach, it's too vague. I'm not prepared to say you aren't losing significant time shooting.

Regardless, the answer is to practice going faster. The secret to leaving position efficiently is calling your last shot and then exploding without hesitation. For entering position efficiently, the goal is to shoot at the earliest moment possible.

This is from my last match and I move slow I need drills to work on that.

Edited by rustychev
fix stuff
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I only watched the first stage, but the elephant in the room is you need to practice your transitions and you need to actually run between positions.

You can make instant improvements without drills by just trying to get from place to place as fast as possible.

You don't need special drills. What I did when I was new is watch every video I could of myself and compared how I moved with every video I could find of top shooters. Then I tried to move like them in practice.

Edited by Jake Di Vita
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I'm right there with you on needing to run and when I'm shooting I feel like I am but as we all can see I'm not that's what has me stuck.  I came in second SS on that stage with 145 points and the winner shot 114 points I'm slow.

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That is something I'v just started to work on but have limited space to "get up to speed"  but I taped off two boxes in my basement and have been going back and forth buts only 5 big steeps.  I have also been working on turning 90 degrees for the next target.

 

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1 hour ago, Mhall said:

Along with transition work and running to positions is, work on visualization more. You appeared to be searching for the next target many times. 

Do this

2 hours ago, Jake Di Vita said:

Have you ever ran as fast as you could from one shooting position to another in dry fire? And live fire

Do this

2 hours ago, rustychev said:

That is something I'v just started to work on but have limited space to "get up to speed"  but I taped off two boxes in my basement and have been going back and forth buts only 5 big steeps.  I have also been working on turning 90 degrees for the next target.

 

That is really where the money is made, most of our running in this sport is only a few steps. Get up to speed as fast as possible and then slow down and be ready to shoot as soon as you enter the position. 

Obviously improving your transitions will help, but you are still losing the vast majority of that time by not running as fast as possible. Also, lots of people start running with only one hand on the gun when they are trying to go fast, and pump the other arm. In contrast, I think that often leaving both hands on the gun and just try to put the power down with the legs is faster (for lots of the distances we run, if you have to go a long ways then yea take that hand off and sprint), because rebuilding your grip takes time. 

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4 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said:

Obviously improving your transitions will help, but you are still losing the vast majority of that time by not running as fast as possible. 

I dunno about vast majority. I think he's losing about equal time between moving and his speed pulling the trigger. 

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I dunno about vast majority. I think he's losing about equal time between moving and his speed pulling the trigger. 

The difference between a fast split and a slow split is a tenth. The difference between a slow transition and a fast transition is 2-3 tenths. The difference between sprinting and walking is seconds.

My .02

Edited for horrendous spelling

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22 minutes ago, Gooldylocks said:

The difference between a fast split and a slow split is a tenth. The difference between a slow transition and a fast transition is 2-3 tenths. The difference between sprinting and walking is seconds.

My .02

Edited for horrendous spelling

That .02 is worth some gold. Puts things into perspective. Excellent.!!!!

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1 hour ago, Gooldylocks said:

The difference between a fast split and a slow split is a tenth. The difference between a slow transition and a fast transition is 2-3 tenths. The difference between sprinting and walking is seconds.

My .02

Edited for horrendous spelling

It isn't that simple though. The difference between a fast split and a slow split can be a whole lot more than a tenth, especially on difficult targets. I also think he's losing between .2 and .7 on every single transition. 10 of those in a stage and you're losing between 2 and 7 seconds. Which is probably close to what he is tending to lose in movement as well.

Ok let's get in further detail here. Instead of watching the Lions try to choke another game away, I just went through and gave a bit of an analysis to every shot that this match had. This is going to be long, and Robert, it might feel like I'm jumping on your back a bit, but I'm just trying to give an objective criticism here on where I see you losing time. The TLDR is you are certainly losing time in your movement from position to position, but I think you're losing far more time in general shooting with transitions being the primary place hurting you. 

Stage 1:

Right off the bat the first transition to the close target after the draw target is probably .25 slower than it should be. The long transition off to the right is closer to .5 slow, then the transition back isn't too bad (other than a different engagement order probably would have resulted in a faster time from far less gun movement).

The first slow walk over is definitely close to 2 seconds slow than it needs to be. Presentation to his first target from the second position is definitely too hesitant for a full target at around 10 yards...probably .25 slow here. Transition to the partial isn't too bad, but notice the significantly longer split. When he transitions to the first head box, in addition to the general movement being a little slow notice how the gun bounces a bit. This transition probably cost .4-.5. Same story but worse with the 2nd head box that he had to search for a bit, this one was around a second.

Moving to his third position didn't cost him too much time as he got the reload done pretty much just as his feet were getting in place. With a better reload, this probably would have cost him a second. In a perfect world I would have liked to see him take all 3 poppers before the drop turner, but I'm not terribly upset with the target engagement order if he wasn't confident doing it the ideal way. Transitions for the steel aren't bad. 

Transition after the steel to the open target was definitely awkward. Note the gun dismounting, this was probably .5. After the reload, next two targets are shot at the same pace even though one is mostly obscured and the other is full. Add on another .5 with the split and transition of the 2nd target here. Then the window finish, slightly slow transition and a long pickup shot adds about 1.5 to his score.

On this first stage the walking certainly hurt, but I think the actual shooting hurt much more. He was 7 seconds slow of the stage winner in his division, I think we can easily find that 7 seconds in what was listed.

Stage 2: 

Draw is a bit on the slow side, but I think the transition to the popper through the port and the transition to the paper after hurt a lot. Probably lost close to 1.5 seconds on those 2 transitions. Also note how the gun bobs significantly when transitioned to the first of 2 targets on the left. This is a recurring theme we are seeing and is usually a symptom of not snapping your eyes to the next target ahead of the gun.

The movement to his 2nd shooting position is certainly way slower than it needs to be. I almost think he needs to do some shuttle sprints or even something like the nfl combine cone drill to get his feet moving faster. I think he is losing close to 2 seconds in this run. Then on the 3 targets vertically stacked we notice a long pause on each transition. These targets are close enough together where it should sound like a bill drill. I think he's losing close to a second on this array.

Moving to the 3rd position doesn't look like it cost him a ton. Was just enough time for the reload. With a faster reload he may have been .5ish slow here. Next transition to the triple target with the no shoot was very hesitant. Probably over a second lost here. Shooting pace slowed way down, which is understandable for the risk of the shots, I think it was still a bit slower than he needed to go though. (we see the gun bouncing on transition here too)

Ditto on this position. Didn't cost much because of reload speed, with a better reload maybe as much as a second lost here. Through the port, the steel to steel transition was probably .3 slow (with another gun bounce). Transition to the first swinger wasn't bad, maybe .2 slow, but the transition to the other swinger felt like an eternity. Gotta be close to 1.5 seconds here. 8 seconds slower than stage winner on this one, most of it was shooting pace for sure.

Stage 3

Right out of the gate here we have a problem with the unloaded start. This ended up costing around 3 seconds in the draw and 2 seconds in the standing reload. The transitions with the close open targets hurt a bit as well costing maybe a second between all of them. That's 6 seconds slow in the first position that had nothing at all to do with movement.

Same story with moving to the first position. It is definitely a little slow, but his reload pace makes it so it didn't hurt too bad. Probably down 2 seconds with a better reload. Split on the head shot is a bit slow, probably .25 slower than I'd like it. Transition to the 3 targets in the window we're probably losing at least a second here probably closer to 1.5, especially with the last hesitated transition on the far left target. 

Then we have a walk over closer to the head shot target for a make up, this probably cost 3 seconds or so. After the reload he hits the duck in front of him, looks to be a bit unsure of what to do next, then moves to the target deep inside the port. Probably lost a second here as well in the movement. Transition to the far target probably .3 slow and close to the same on the splits.

Final position, walking to it probably cost another second and a half. Then we have a slow head shot split, an ok transition to the first piece of steel, but then some pick up shots that cost a half second each not including the standing reload they cause. Probably 5 seconds lost in shooting in this last position. 

9 seconds behind stage winner in this stage, most of that is just in the first position. Definitely think shooting/gun handling was a bigger problem than movement in this stage.

Stage 4:

Pretty good unloaded start here (although it seems like he's riding the slide forward with his hand, which could have caused the problem on the last stage....let the spring do it's job after you get the slide to the rear most position).

Splits and transitions here are extremely solid for a C class shooter. Makes me wonder why you weren't shooting like that the rest of the match.

Reload certainly hurts a bit, but overall very solid stage, and a stage win for him.

Stage 5:

Draw was a bit slow for me. Note how his transition to the 3rd target was about the same pace as the transition to the 2nd target, but the 3rd target was significantly easier. Probably .3 lost here. Reload certainly costs some time since he is already in the shooting position for the next targets. Reload was probably somewhere around 2 seconds. Transitions on the upper level targets aren't too bad, but once again the lower more open target is a bit slower with a gun bounce. .3ish again. 

The three targets through the port are just a bit on the slow side. Not bad with the awkwardness of the port and orientation of the targets.

First low target engagement coming into the port looks good, but the transition after it was full of uncertainty. Same with the transition down to the next head box. Probably close to a second lost here just in transitions. 

Then he finishes with the plate rack. Transitions are probably a tenth or two on the slow side but doesn't upset me much since he went 1 for 1 on them. 

He got 2nd on this stage about 7 seconds behind the winner.

Edit: Holy crap this was long. And 2nd holy crap, the Lions might have won in clutch time.

Edited by Jake Di Vita
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What I don't understand is when I am shooting I feel like I am moving fast.  When I see the video I am not moving fast how do over come that is it just practice?


Just consciously during a stage tell yourself to RUN. When you are doing live fire practice, video yourself shooting a drill and wat vh how fast you are running. Shoot it again consciously telling yourself to run faster.
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Jake thanks for taking what I'm sure was a lot of time Im really great full for the feed back.  What I'm hearing is stay on the gun between targets and run more.

Also the slow reload on stage 4 was bad mussel memory all mags on table and I went to my belt and could not find a mag.  That cost me as it came in at 59.??% for the classifier.

Edited by rustychev
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5 minutes ago, rustychev said:

Jake thanks for taking what I'm sure was a lot of time Im really great full for the feed back.  What I'm hearing is stay on the gun between targets and run more.

Also the slow reload on stage 4 was bad mussel memory all mags on table and I went to my belt and could not find a mag.  That cost me as it came in at 59.??% for the classifier.

No problem. You primarily need to snap your eyes to the next target and drive your gun hard to it and run more aggressively.

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2 hours ago, rustychev said:

What I don't understand is when I am shooting I feel like I am moving fast.  When I see the video I am not moving fast how do over come that is it just practice?

it's all about being more confident and more aggressive.

I am not in great shape physically but I can run movement within an acceptable margin of the fit top shooters and I actually beat plenty of fitter guys too purely by being very aggressive in my movement.

The same goes for the transitions. The first secret is you need to get your eyes moving ahead of the gun. until you can do that you'll always have slow transitions with gun and eyes moving together. this skill is harder to acquire than it sounds but there are drills for it (see the enos transition drill). once you can see faster, you can shoot faster. Once you nail this transition times will tumble. 

This also applies to things like draws. I got stuck into a rut of 1.5sec draws to 7 yard open targets. I realized I'd basically trained myself that 1.5 sec was my 'fast' time. In practice I simply had the goal to move my hands faster. guess what? my draw was faster. When I really crank it getting the .85 draws is possible. now that my body 'knows' what a .85 feels like a 1.2 now feels like slow motion. It's about using practice to 'show' your body what a .85 draw feels like. what does a .20 transition feel like etc. 

as for the perception thing I get that too. I used to think I was moving fast too till I looked at vids of myself in training and matches. it looked like I was moving through jelly. it does take time to truly become comfortable moving aggressively with a pistol in hand. we are always conscious of muzzle direction and that slows us down.  moving faster then is more about confidence.

one of the things that helps is keep the gun up. for some reason the default moving style for newer shooters is drop the gun down around waist height and trail it around the place. keep it up in your 'working space' right at about chest height. being up in your peripheral vision means you have vision of the muzzle without having to think about it. When there is an opportunity to run, RUN. don't just walk quickly, get your arms pumping (within reason) and RUN!.

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I think Jake covered it pretty good so I'll only add a couple of things. First it appears in several places you were thinking your way through the course. Which probably leads to why you are walking and shooting slow. It looks like you looks for the target. Find it. Then move the gun there. Additionally I saw at least one target where it looked like you changed your mind where to shoot it as the gun got there. Plan everything in the walk through and then execute the plan on the start signal. Second, you seem to largely have two speeds on target. Your .26 split, and a .70 split. One is a double tap and the other is two aimed, very aimed, shots. You need to figure out the max speed you can shoot each target, and almost all of them will be different.

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On 9/11/2016 at 4:01 PM, Jake Di Vita said:

I dunno about vast majority. I think he's losing about equal time between moving and his speed pulling the trigger. 

agreed. splits aren't the problem, just slow transitions and slow target acquisition, slow reloads and slow movement.

 

For the OP, I also shoot SS, and I know dealing with reloads sometimes held back my development of speed. I made alot of progress this year by creating drills in my backyard (and live fire) where I had to reload and immediately start shooting, and just got comfortable with a greater sense of urgency. Also, about a year ago I started paying attention to steve anderson's concepts of speed mode for training vs accuracy mode. When I practice in speed mode, I don't care about accuracy as long as I hit the target, and as long as I see the sights. I just work on getting faster while calling my shots.

A year or two ago i probably shot exactly like you, accurate, but not fast, even tho it felt fast to me. Training in speed mode helped me make my normal speed faster. Of course it still needs plenty of work, but the difference from a year ago is dramatic.

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