I'm oh, so close.

[MissionaryMike]

I've been shooting competitively for about 10 months now.  In that time, I've shot in five matches, including a level 2 regional and level 3 area.  I really wish I could should more often, but I have two young children and I actually love them more than shooting sports ?.  It's really the same family logistical issues with just about anything I enjoy for myself.  Normally, I compensate by satisfying the gearhead in me.  I do as much research as possible, which prior to joining USPSA lead me to buying a CZ.  I have an Accu Shadow.  It's a great gun.  I especially appreciate the trigger.  However, I'm in the process of transitioning to the P-09, specifically with the medium back strap attached.  The trigger is not as crisp and light, but the ergos are better for me, again, with the medium backstrap.  As small as the grip is on the Shadow, that DA is just a millimeter or 2 too long for consistent draws and first shots.  Then the SA is too short for my liking as well.  With the P-09, although my palm sits further away from the rear of the trigger guard, the DA reach isn't as long, as the trigger doesn't sit as forward. 

Anyway, when I compare pictures of the Shadow and the Stock II, the grip on the Stock II is noticeably chunkier.  The general shape also looks very similar to how my P-09 looks w/ the medium strap.  Has or can anyone handle and specifically  compare the grip on the P-09 (medium) and the Stock II?  And then, what are the DA and SA reaches like compared to a Shadow variant from CZC?   I know I sound like a perfectionist. I'm just looking for something that really fits like a glove. I'm realizing that my Accu Shadow ergonomics don't offer me that.   If the DA on the S2 is just as long as on my Accu, then Tanfos are a no go as well,  which would be really sad because I've noticed the tremendous improvements that the BOLO disconnector offers to the Tanfoglio trigger. Along with the hopes of improved ergos (for me), the potential for a better trigger is what has me staring hard at a S2. But maybe I'll just have to be satisfied with the P09.  Thanks for bearing through this post   

-MM

 

[Prov1x]

Trigger reach on tanfo is shorter than a shadow. I too had a hard time reaching the da on a cz and that's why I switched as well. Both are great guns, the new shadow 2, is supposed to eliminate the long da reach and be comparable to the tanfo. But there is no telling when those will be available in the U.S. Trigger reach will be very similar to the P09 with the medium backstrap. 

[fischeac]

Trigger reach / grip size is same reason I switched from shadow to lim pro. 

[ElMateo487]

Isn't the shadow with the reach reduction kit from CGW a shorter pull than the tanfo?

[MissionaryMike]

12 minutes ago, ElMateo487 said:

Isn't the shadow with the reach reduction kit from CGW a shorter pull than the tanfo?

Probably, but it's not a Production legal mod.

[ElMateo487]

Probably, but it's not a Production legal mod.

Oh. Whoops. Yeah that makes sense

[MissionaryMike]

59 minutes ago, fischeac said:

Trigger reach / grip size is same reason I switched from shadow to lim pro. 

Were you looking for something similar to what I described.  If not, how does the Lim Pro fit differently in your hand compared to a Shadow?

 

1 hour ago, Prov1x said:

Trigger reach on tanfo is shorter than a shadow. I too had a hard time reaching the da on a cz and that's why I switched as well. Both are great guns, the new shadow 2, is supposed to eliminate the long da reach and be comparable to the tanfo. But there is no telling when those will be available in the U.S. Trigger reach will be very similar to the P09 with the medium backstrap. 

Wow, if I wasn't close enough, you've certainly made it really hard for me not to resist buying one right now.

[fellas]

i prefer tanfoglio DA over CZ shadow 2 DA reach , i have big hands tough

[MissionaryMike]

26 minutes ago, fellas said:

i prefer tanfoglio DA over CZ shadow 2 DA reach , i have big hands tough

Are you saying the DA on the Tanfo is longer than the DA on the Shadow 2?

[fellas]

Its shorter,

I use the tanfoglio with the wooden grips,it more beefy and they are really comfortable for me , you dont feel the checkering under the trigger guard  cutting through your hands  ( when using extreme or aluminium  grips its the same as the shadow ). Also if you prefer the DA reach of the CZ on a Tanfoglio you can go to the extreme DA trigger and still it is shorter to reach than a shadow 2 .

Shadow 2 is a very nice gun with  high quality finish, and  superb mag release and the same size as the stock 3 . The trigger and grip on both shadow s is what i dont like , The shadow 2 has a very slim grip panel , you can feel the checkering marking the fingers when having a tight grip and with the shape of  trigger  sort of elevated i dont find it comfortable when pulling  DA contrary to the Stock 2 otherwise on single action they are just the same ( my opinion )

 

 

 

 

[LeviSS]

43 minutes ago, fellas said:

Its shorter,

I use the tanfoglio with the wooden grips,it more beefy and they are really comfortable for me , you dont feel the checkering under the trigger guard  cutting through your hands  ( when using extreme or aluminium  grips its the same as the shadow ). Also if you prefer the DA reach of the CZ on a Tanfoglio you can go to the extreme DA trigger and still it is shorter to reach than a shadow 2 .

Shadow 2 is a very nice gun with  high quality finish, and  superb mag release and the same size as the stock 3 . The trigger and grip on both shadow s is what i dont like , The shadow 2 has a very slim grip panel , you can feel the checkering marking the fingers when having a tight grip and with the shape of  trigger  sort of elevated i dont find it comfortable when pulling  DA contrary to the Stock 2 otherwise on single action they are just the same ( my opinion )

 

 

 

 

 

I've been considering a Stock 2 for some time now, since I find the original Shadow grip/frame size to be a little small for my hands.  I hear the Tanfoglios large frame is better for larger hands.  Does the new Shadow 2 have bigger grip/frame to better fit larger hands?

[fischeac]

9 hours ago, MissionaryMike said:

Were you looking for something similar to what I described.  If not, how does the Lim Pro fit differently in your hand compared to a Shadow?

 

 

Yes, I was in the same boat as you. The large frame of the tango with the trigger placement feels much more natural.

[fellas]

here in europe i dont know about large frame ,  they are all small frame the stock 2, stock 3, limited pro. Tanfoglio grip feel more natural for me and as i told there are different grip panel that sure make the gun to your liking, like extreme grips, the original factory aluminum  and hennings .There was a thread here that measure the width of the gun with the mentioned grips

the shadow 2 have very slim grip, right now they are not making any wide one's but sure in near future,

 

i have both stock 2 & 3 in wooden grips and for me tanfoglio have the best grip ergonomic on earth

[leemoe83]

The CZ P series with the large back strap installed is almost exactly the same profile from the side as the Stock 2 but the S2 is wider and the stock grip panels have a slight curve.  The P series feels more like the Tanfo then it does the SPO1.

[MissionaryMike]

15 hours ago, leemoe83 said:

The CZ P series with the large back strap installed is almost exactly the same profile from the side as the Stock 2 but the S2 is wider and the stock grip panels have a slight curve.  The P series feels more like the Tanfo then it does the SPO1.

Oh. The large strap is probably a touch too big.  I'm going to have hold one and check it out for myself.  

[MissionaryMike]

So, a competitor in my squad yesterday had a Stock 2.  It did indeed feel closer to a P-09 w/ the large size strap.  I didn't ask which grips were on there, but they were black checkered, which leads me to think they were the EDG aluminum grips.  Those are the thinnest grip option for the Tanfos, correct?  The DA reach didn't feel all that shorter for me compared to my Accu Shadow.  I did like the ergos a little better on the Stock 2 though.  Almost the same DA reach, but the bigger grip allowed for more of my weak hand palm to rest securely on the grip.  

Another question I have is regarding the bull barrel in the Stock 2.  On paper, a nice heavy bull barrel seems like a good thing.  But in the context of a competition, is there truly a noticeable difference, or is it just another one of those things you don't really benefit from once the adrenaline hits after the buzzer goes off?

Thank for sharing your opinions.

[billthemarine2862]

Hey MissionaryMike,

There could be some grips made by Lok for your tanfo that are about as thin as the EGD's.  It is certainly worth checking.  I just put a set of EGD's on my stock 3 and it is considerably thinner than before. The DA pull was easy before, but it almost feels like cheating now it is so much shorter.  

As to your question about the accuracy. I have been shooting matches about as long as you (3 kids though) 7 matches in 10 months.  I personally do not notice it.  Maybe I will in another year or two but, I am so jazzed up every time I step in that box i can't tell a difference from an accuracy stand point. I just know I shoot better with the Tanfo than anything I own except my tactical sports, and that is not really a fair comparison since they are in different divisions.

Best of luck no matter what you decide.

Bill

[MissionaryMike]

Bill, I appreciate the feedback.  I hear ya about getting all jazzed up.  I had a match on Saturday, and once that buzzer goes off, everything else in the world fades away.  Once I'm done shooting a stage, it takes a few minutes for me to get normal again.  I guess I brought up the bull barrel, not so much as an accuracy thing, but more of a potential benefit regarding recoil control.  I think the main benefit of a bull barrel is the additional weight up front that helps manage muzzle rise, which in turn might help w/ follow up shots.  Even if their is a noticeable benefit with the added weight, like you, I'm doubtful it would help me all that much as I only shoot about as often as you.  But then again, I don't want to be C class for forever .  Whatever can help me...

And plus, I'm a gear nut...  I guess I'm just looking for an excuse to go ahead and spend another $1200 on tinkering with another gun.

 

Edited September 26, 2016 by MissionaryMike

[ryridesmotox]

I think the full dust cover adds a lot of weighh as well... The bull barrel is more for accuracy, locking the barrel to the slide takes away any inconsistency between the sights and the barrel. For me... In 1911s, the accuracy is more noticeable in a bull barrel than a standard bushing fit. As always your mileage may vary... But for me, getting this type of gun in a 2011 doubkestack, would have cost twice as much. Street price on stock 2s are around 900 most places... Unless you are in a restricted state

Edited September 26, 2016 by ryridesmotox

[MemphisMechanic]

I can't help with your answer regarding the recoil control side of things...

However. I made a modification to my M&P (an Apex hand-fit barrel) that dropped the 25yd group size of my gun with heavier bullets from around 5-6" inches down to 1.75-2.0"

note: We aren't discussing "internet accuracy" where the fanboy just quotes the manufacturer. I shot freestyle groups going back and forth between barrels with the same ammo, and that's the actual result.

I didn't realize how much of a boost to my confidence it would result in. Not until I the first match with partial 15yd targets, anyway. Knowing your gun is extremely mechanically accurate is a night and day difference... But coming from the Shadow instead of a piece of combat Tupperware, I doubt you'll notice much of a change.

[MissionaryMike]

Oh, ok.  I didn't know that that the "cone" barrel offered greater accuracy.  I learn something new almost every day.  

 

Thanks, gents.

[ryridesmotox]

After the buzzer is mostly adrenaline but if you can control it, he conefit bull barrel helps. My experience with the tanfo stock2 has been fun

In my very first match with the gun, I rand a stage clean... All A-zone hits, all steel down, if only I didn't induce a few failures because of my choice to run the Henning pin with too light of a spring... Will it make you a better shooter? No, but if you have 2 guns that, otherwise, are equal, the bull barrel will be more accurate. 

I do have a lot of rounds down range in my life... But this is probably the most accurate pistol I've shot in a long time... Maaaaybe my wife's smith and wesson 325 is a little more accurate... But that's totally different animal. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by ryridesmotox

[MemphisMechanic]

2 hours ago, MissionaryMike said:

Oh, ok.  I didn't know that that the "cone" barrel offered greater accuracy.  I learn something new almost every day.  

 

Thanks, gents.

The cone-fit barrel describes how the muzzle end of the barrel locks into the slide. It's more consistent than your usual non-high-end 1911 guns - than most other Production legal firearms.

Think of it as Tanfo's "accu Shadow" equivalent. The Lim Pro and the Stock 3 don't have this feature. And just like with a Shadow, they're still really damned accurate in most cases. But the Stock 2 and the Accu-bushing'd Shadow have 74% more marketing ... and must therefore obviously be better.

Edited September 26, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[MissionaryMike]

Could someone with a stock trigger please measure the distance of the DA from resting position to rear of the grip, straight across parallel to the bore or to the inner most part of the beavertail (probably isn't parallel to the bore)?  Sorry for the trouble.  

Oh, and are you guys running stock triggers or upgrading to the Xtreme trigger w/ over travel screw?

[MemphisMechanic]

Supposedly the Xtreme trigger, although it appears straighter to the eye, increases the DA trigger reach far enough that most guys take them back out.

That's what I've learned from reading the Internet - never touched one myself. Hopefully others will confirm