Single Stack Minor @ Larger Matches

[mreed911]

I shot the Oilfield Classic this weekend and had a blast - it was a great match!  I've been primarily shooting Single Stack Major over the last year (my first year in USPSA) with a little Production here and there at local matches for a new gun I picked up.  I'm currently a low C-Class SS shooter.

In this match, however, the top Single Stack shooter shot Minor and the top four C-class shooters shot Minor.  My experience was a right at my current level and I'm thinking back through the stages to wonder how much of a difference 10 round mags vs. 8 round mags would have made.  On several stages, it might have changed my approach as there were lots of nearby/consecutive four and six-shot arrays (paper and mixed paper/steel) that I took as [(4+4) reload (6) reload (6)] and I could have taken as [(4+6) reload (4+6)].  My reload times aren't horrible but I might have moved more to avoid a standing reload here and there and it definitely breaks my cadence.

The results for Single Stack @ Oilfield: https://practiscore.com/results/new/25118?q_division=8

I have a Springfield RO 9mm I'm comfortable with I could use more often and I need to get to the range this week to compare my times/accuracy with it vs. my .45.  Beyond that, is there another compelling reason (other than reload cost) for shooting SS minor?

 

[dansedgli]

Reloads make or break it depending on stage design. 

I've just bought a 45 to give major a go. (I recently won my Ipsc nationals shooting minor.)

[mach1soldier]

Stage design matters a lot. How accurate are you shooting major? If you shoot a ton of c's and d's. Stay with major. 

I keep thinking about shooting minor just because I could compare to production times and also steal their stage plans.

[mreed911]

Usually, more accurate than fast.  This last time, more fast than accurate.  Looking at the stages for Area 4, I think I'm going to bring the SRO 9mm out to play w/10rd mags.  Since I'm not reloading (yet, I guess) it and I like Freedom's 135gr loads quite a bit.

[SCTaylor]

What are you more comfortable with Mike? I'd rather run a platform where there is confidence and let the rest follow.

[zzt]

m, I usually get 90-94% of the available points on any given stage.  When I go back and recalculate my score as Minor, I almost always drop a place or three.

As was said earlier, stage design matters a lot, especially if there is steel involved.  Here is what I find myself doing.  On any Virginia count stage, I tend to go slower and concentrate on accuracy.  If I start with 8+1 I run a little faster, because I know I have a make up round if needed.  If I use it I'm have to reload from slide lock and I'm down to 8 for the remaining sub-stages.  10 rounds, or better yet, 10+1 let's me push harder and I'm faster. 

In Limited, 20-round mags are a real confidence booster.  I can scream through stages knowing I have four extra rounds to make up for misses on steel or a D shot.  Plus I know I'll only have to reload once, and there is always a place to do that without costing time.  Open is even more fun.  You can blaze through many stages with rounds left over.  On the longer stages where you have to reload, you have many, many more rounds than you need, so you can be less cautious and press a lot harder.

So for me, the decision would go like this. If I can learn to shoot just a little more accurately than I do now while maintaining speed, I'd shoot Minor.  Until then, I'll stay Major.

[motosapiens]

My recommendation would be to do both for a while. Shoot minor for a couple months, then shoot major, then back to minor and see how it goes. I've shot alot of both the last year or so, and even in the worst case, they are very close. I typically finish about the same. Last year I was finishing slightly  better shooting minor, but this year as my speed has picked up and my reloads have gotten much faster it's starting to tilt back towards major, but it is definitely stage design dependent.

If you reload fast and have good discipline on steel, most of the disadvantages of major go away. If you don't reload fast or have good discipline on steel, then you should practice until you do.

At any rate, they are different enough that you can really learn alot by switching, but they are similar enough that the things you learn will still apply if you switch back.

[rishii]

Does your club allow re-entries and do they post the unofficial overall scores?

if yes, than I would enter SS major and L10 minor and see how you do

[mont1120]

I do remember watching an episode of Shooting USA, and it was focused on the SS Nationals. From what I remember, the top 5 shooters all shot major, and it may have even been the top 10. When the shooters were asked specifically what thew best choice was, major or minor, there was no argument, major was the best. I always shoot major, but then again, I usually compete in L10, but after finding myself the ONLY shooter around here in L10, I am moving to SS.

[PatJones]

Does your club allow re-entries and do they post the unofficial overall scores?

if yes, than I would enter SS major and L10 minor and see how you do

I do remember watching an episode of Shooting USA, and it was focused on the SS Nationals. From what I remember, the top 5 shooters all shot major, and it may have even been the top 10. When the shooters were asked specifically what thew best choice was, major or minor, there was no argument, major was the best. I always shoot major, but then again, I usually compete in L10, but after finding myself the ONLY shooter around here in L10, I am moving to SS.

That is VERY specific to that match. The single stack society goes well out of their way to ensure that there is no way to use the additional 2 rounds in a minor gun to an advantage. I think if they could figure out a way to disadvantage a .40 they would do that too...

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, mont1120 said:

I do remember watching an episode of Shooting USA, and it was focused on the SS Nationals. From what I remember, the top 5 shooters all shot major, and it may have even been the top 10. When the shooters were asked specifically what thew best choice was, major or minor, there was no argument, major was the best. I always shoot major, but then again, I usually compete in L10, but after finding myself the ONLY shooter around here in L10, I am moving to SS.

SS nationals is VERY different from every other match in that it is specifically designed to make minor not viable. I think minor is sometimes an advantage depending on the stage and the shooter's skills and preferences, but I would never shoot minor at the SS nationals at PASA.

[mont1120]

Out of curiosity why would the SS Nationals designers want to make minor not viable? I don't understand why that would be a focus. 

[waktasz]

IMO at most matches except SS nats, minor is better.

 

I just worked Area 8 also (stage 12). The majority of SS shooters seemed to be shooting minor, including all of the top 3, and another top shooter who was DQ'd. Scott Warren shot major and finished 4th, at 85%.

I know for SURE, stage 12 favored minor.  

[mreed911]

This has been a good discussion.  After looking over the stages, I've decided to shoot Minor at Area 4 this weekend, so it'll be a good comparison.  It was also a good excuse for more range time behind my SRO to prepare... never a bad thing!

[PatJones]

Out of curiosity why would the SS Nationals designers want to make minor not viable? I don't understand why that would be a focus. 

Because the Single Stack Society wants to shoot 45s.

[gmantwo]

My thinking is this, accuracy has to come before speed. The class winners don't win because they're the fastest in all cases, but they do usually all shoot near 95%+ of available points. Do that and your speed will put you in the class you deserve. If your speed improves, WHILE MAINTAINING the mid to upper 90's of available, that's how you win class. At that points level, minor scoring becomes a minor issue. Especially if you gain the rounds and can accurately shoot minor faster

[mreed911]

So, as a follow-up:

Area 4 was my worst match ever. It wasn't the gun, the ammo, the match/stages or the weather - it was the shooter.

I started the morning off badly from the time I woke up and never regained my mental game. I couldn't get out of my head and into the zone for lots of reasons. It showed. More Mikes (and procedurals) in the first two stages than every other level two or higher match I've shot this year combined.

I can't really evaluate the major vs minor decision here now given the lack of reliable performance data. As for shooting minor, I can't reasonably say it made any difference besides power factor. With Freedom's 135gr I was at 128PF, which was perfect.

I think in the future I'll shoot minor at local matches as I build my skills then evaluate stages at majors for the major/minor decision. Two rounds makes a difference on lots of stages and zero difference on others (like six-round-string classifiers).

I'll be able to track performance changes via classifier scores at local matches.

[motosapiens]

On 9/10/2016 at 3:04 PM, mreed911 said:

I think in the future I'll shoot minor at local matches as I build my skills then evaluate stages at majors for the major/minor decision. Two rounds makes a difference on lots of stages and zero difference on others (like six-round-string classifiers).

 

yes, the extra rounds sometimes make a significant difference. I shot major last weekend at the Idaho state match, and it probably favored minor more than any other match I have ever shot. I  had to plan standing reloads in at least 3 places, as well as a couple of planned slide-lock reloads, and of course the wonderful unplanned standing reloads that come from having a make-up or two on steel. OTOH, I reloaded fast and shot fast, so whatever....

[davidb72]

One place where minor hurts is on classifiers.

I prefer and enjoy to shoot minor, but have started shooting major at locals to help with classifier scores as I'd like to move up.

At sectional or area matches it will be minor only for me unless Tim Herron says otherwise.

[mreed911]

I got great advice on classifiers.  Shoot them minor to tell where your skills REALLY are then get bumped up based on match performance shooting major.  Made sense to me, as there's no benefit to bumping up into a class I'm not truly competitive in yet.

[gmantwo]

On September 15, 2016 at 8:04 PM, mreed911 said:

as there's no benefit to bumping up into a class I'm not truly competitive in yet.

Exactly

[ROY NEAL]

As many of have already said-it all comes down to stage design. The SS Classic/Nationals=bring out your major gun. This is the one match where they really do go out of their way to make sure that there is no advantage to shooting minor. At many other level II or III matches, I have found that shooting minor has some advantages IF you have the skills and ability to recognize those places where the 10+1 comes in handy. With the popularity of Production, many matches are really set up for 10+1, so you may have to take both guns/ammo with you till you walk the stages and determine what works best with your skill set.

In IPSC, there really isn't a choice. They can shoot 9 rounds from any 1 position so losing time due to extra reloads is difficult to overcome.

[TimH]

I chose to shoot major at A3 which was pretty neutral major/minor and placed well.

I also chose to shoot major at Indiana 400 even though a lot of the stages favored minor over major. I placed well there too.

I'm shooting the MO Fall Classic this weekend in Rolla and will be shooting major there as well. A close look at the stages show that there are a couple steel heavy stages where minor might have a slight advantage, however I'm going to continue playing major as its tough to give up the points on open and partial targets where speed can be a bigger factor.

[rowdyb]

I'll see you in Rolla. 99 pieces of steel, 109 paper targets. Yeah... bring your front sight focus or bring lots of ammo.

[gmantwo]

I shot minor open at Rolla. 2nd in class finish, which means my scores & my times put me where I belong in class. Shot about 93% of available points so as my line & times improve, so will my place