johnbu Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 So.... I'm Johnbu and I'm a serial cheater.... At least, that's what I've discovered. Seems that during dry firing I'm lying to myself that there is an "acceptable sight picture"...when there isn't. This jumped up and waved at me during live fire (again), as it had time and again. However I finally recognized how I've been deluding myself. After backing up to 25yds, firing 2 rounds at two metric targets, mentally scoring, then pasting I found I could actually hit As....if I really bore down on the sight picture. Prior to that...C and D were showing up and it was a shock (just like at a match -doh!). That annoyed me and started thoughts to thinking. So while dry firing this morning, I realized I WASN'T REALLY GETTING A GOOD SIGHT PICTURE. Training hard wasn't helping on the range, since I wasn't REALLY doing my part. Sux, because now I have to fix that bad habit. Sigh....oh well...back to the basics (again). And this is after the draw to 4yd index hit a new low...0.7 par. And it was a thud drop from 1.0. Was feeling pretty cocky....now not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointerman1967 Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 For the past few months I have stopped pulling the trigger in dry fire with the exception of the white wall drill. Anything else I practice I am not doing trigger pulls. I was ingraining some bad habits and eliminating the trigger pull has helped me get my accuracy under control while still improving the other elements. I will eventually go back to including trigger pulls in other drills, but honestly, at this point I don't see anything but harm from doing so in my current level of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I listened to Steve Anderson . . . and have never done trigger work during dry fire. Trigger work / practice I do during live fire only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepard Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I have the same issue with dryfire. I use airsoft to keep me honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Just getting ready to add dry fire back into my schedule. So trigger pull is bad why? Just want to understand. I do have an airsoft also. I was thinking I'd use the airsoft for transition drills. All tips appreciated. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Pulling the trigger changes focus from sight alignment to triggering before the beep (aligned or not). It's bad if it changes concentration away from holding steady and seeing that alignment. Happened to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bouboy02 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 The problem isn't pulling the trigger in dryfire, its a patience issue trying to rush to beat the timer and firing a shot without an acceptable sight picture. I would try dryfiring for a week or so not using a timer, keep doing the same drills you have been doing but instead of trying to rush to beat par times work on only firing acceptable shots. Make sure your not disturbing the sights at all when you work the trigger. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWLAZS Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Skip the par times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I have (had) been having the same problem. I can beat the par in dryfire but my hits aren't there consistently. I started using a laser cartridge I've had around here for a while. I put up an 8" paper plate @ about 12 yd and make sure to see where the dot is and where the laser hits. My live fire yesterday seemed to be coming back in line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 imho, until you can start calling shots, probably the most important skill to work on is calling shots. Once you can start doing that (even some of the time), you can get alot more out of your dryfire. Like everyone else, I got sucked into the pit of beating par times by not having enough sight picture. Wasted alot of time doing that. Once I committed to shotcalling last year, I got more consistent and my rate of improvement ramped up, and I found I was learning more from every training session (both dry and live fire), but calling shots is still one of the main foci of my trainng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted August 28, 2016 Author Share Posted August 28, 2016 ^ I think that's right. Only "think" at this point as the ability to call is sorely lacking....:(. But consciously attempting to call shots is what brought this to to where even I could realize how I was short changing myself. So I will make even more efforts to SEE what is going on while that trigger moves. Heading off to a local match .... will try and go in some form of match / call the shots mode rather than my usual psycho squirrel on crack mode i have been using. (While interesting to watch.... it doesn't score as well as it could...lol ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uewpew Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 I don't agree with skipping trigger press during dry fire...you're denying yourself thousands of muscle reps with zero $ spent...I don't know about you guys, but I can't afford do get all my trigger practice in live fire only... The key to not developing bad habits during dry fire is to be honest with yourself, especially if that means not making par times. IMO it's better to practice your fundamental skills honestly and miss the part time, then to cheat your skills and beat the part time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodyAxon Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 I had a similar issue when I first started dry fire, I would cheat like crazy to try to meet the goal par times in the dry fire books. You definitely need to live fire to figure out what kinds of sight pictures are appropriate for different shots and do everything you can to replicate those during dry fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted August 29, 2016 Share Posted August 29, 2016 Everyone cheats dryfire draws. Be the exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunnuts Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Thinking about one of the cartridge lasers. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
target4fun Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 10 minutes ago, 3gunnuts said: Thinking about one of the cartridge lasers. Any thoughts? I have heard from a recent student in my NRA instructors course that they wear out after repeated use and stop working. As they had some and used them on a high volume setting at a shooting range that they run. That being said maybe at home use it might not wear out so fast? Some other options to consider a SIRT pistol, I really love the concept but the cost is just crazy I think. If i was rich I would have one, for sure as they do have a value for dryfire training. Another option that might be better is the airsoft high quality versions with green gas are about 150-200 bucks and better value than SIRT in my opinion. If you have a spot where you dont mind cleaning up plastic bb's it would be easy enough to set up one of the kits that are available for airsoft practice with reduced size targets. Look up keith garcia using them in his garage to supplement his training. While it doesnt replace training it still has value if you cant afford or have time to hit the range daily. Another interesting thing to look up is there was a fella who practiced daily with airsoft in japan (Where these pistols are illegal) he practiced his butt off with airsoft and had zero formal training and came to US a week before the nationals steel match got the gun and practiced with it for a week then dusted everyone at the steel nationals, with his very unusual grip, stance so I think ever since then I like most have not discounted air soft practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunnuts Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 7 hours ago, target4fun said: I have heard from a recent student in my NRA instructors course that they wear out after repeated use and stop working. As they had some and used them on a high volume setting at a shooting range that they run. That being said maybe at home use it might not wear out so fast? Some other options to consider a SIRT pistol, I really love the concept but the cost is just crazy I think. If i was rich I would have one, for sure as they do have a value for dryfire training. Another option that might be better is the airsoft high quality versions with green gas are about 150-200 bucks and better value than SIRT in my opinion. If you have a spot where you dont mind cleaning up plastic bb's it would be easy enough to set up one of the kits that are available for airsoft practice with reduced size targets. Look up keith garcia using them in his garage to supplement his training. While it doesnt replace training it still has value if you cant afford or have time to hit the range daily. Another interesting thing to look up is there was a fella who practiced daily with airsoft in japan (Where these pistols are illegal) he practiced his butt off with airsoft and had zero formal training and came to US a week before the nationals steel match got the gun and practiced with it for a week then dusted everyone at the steel nationals, with his very unusual grip, stance so I think ever since then I like most have not discounted air soft practice. I have access to a SIRT pistol (3 actually) but I shoot STI's so the grip and draw is going to be detrimental to my practice. Not to mention the triggers on the SIRTS are horrible. I have heard the same airsoft story about Stoeger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 SIRT pistols are badass. They ought to come in a slightly wider variety of options (1911/2011). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 On 8/28/2016 at 5:52 PM, uewpew said: I don't agree with skipping trigger press during dry fire...you're denying yourself thousands of muscle reps with zero $ spent...I don't know about you guys, but I can't afford do get all my trigger practice in live fire only... no one ever said to not *ever* pull the trigger during dry fire. just on some drills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted September 21, 2016 Author Share Posted September 21, 2016 Was working on creating a movement drill. 90degree turn, 2-3 steps, 4 targetes, 2 steps, 4 targets and a hard lean. And I realized with "reading" glasses on I can't really SEE the target well enough to avoid "shooting brown". That's the other focus point, learning to hit more A's. These mid-life declines are starting to really piss me off! Don't get me started on how fresking bad my hip is! But on a brighter note, the dash to first position is now making it a struggle to get the gun out and up before entering the first box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Phil Posted September 22, 2016 Share Posted September 22, 2016 I use a cartridge laser. Cost about 70 bucks. Had it 3 years or so. I have let a couple people (who I have been working with on basics) use it for some extended periods. The laser seems to make the girls forget that their grip is weak, when the have to cycle the slide every time. In a week or so they have no problem with the slide. Trigger press is improved. All pros in that usage.. The guys seem to like "shooting" the guys on the TV that they don't like... Dry firing, as said above, you can see your hits. No cheating... I like it and if it dies, I will get another. Maybe 7 for my revo? Batteries are cheap. 3 at a time. On the 2nd set in 3 years. Haven't found any cons yet... Will keep you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 (edited) On 09/22/2016 at 9:22 AM, Dr. Phil said: I use a cartridge laser. Cost about 70 bucks. Had it 3 years or so. I have let a couple people (who I have been working with on basics) use it for some extended periods. The laser seems to make the girls forget that their grip is weak, when the have to cycle the slide every time. In a week or so they have no problem with the slide. Trigger press is improved. All pros in that usage.. The guys seem to like "shooting" the guys on the TV that they don't like... Dry firing, as said above, you can see your hits. No cheating... I like it and if it dies, I will get another. Maybe 7 for my revo? Batteries are cheap. 3 at a time. On the 2nd set in 3 years. Haven't found any cons yet... Will keep you posted. I have one. It taught me "target focus" when I needed to learn sight focus. one of the things i need to correct. Edited September 24, 2016 by johnbu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunnuts Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 On 9/23/2016 at 10:17 PM, johnbu said: I have one. It taught me "target focus" when I needed to learn sight focus. one of the things i need to correct. Thanks. I never thought of that. Sight focus is what I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crispin1025 Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 I pull the trigger when I dry fire, but I also make it a point to reinforce accuracy during practice by including some long range/small target work every time to keep me honest. Especially when I'm practicing with my revolver pulling the trigger during movement is a critical skill, and I enjoy cross training because it forces me to be faster with my bottom feeders. JM in one of his videos talked about cross training on different rifles to keep him honest, if I find it I'll post the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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