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FBI P320


TacticalReload

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This might not be the right place for this question, but it's certainly the most likely to get views by people who care about SIGs.  In a live chat last week, Larry Vickers stated that he heard the P320 miserably failed the FBI trials that lead to the selection of the Glock 17M/19M.  Does anyone have an input or thoughts on this?  Aside from infrequent extraction issues, I am not seeing a whole lot of issues with the P320.

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I've put a lot through my P320's, also, with no issues. Only thing I can guess is that the evaluation criteria for these selection processes are pretty subjective, and "failing miserably" may not mean or be as bad as it sounds.


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4 hours ago, PatJones said:

Larry Vickers? Who cares?

First of all, it wasn't his opinion.  It was what he said he was told.

Secondly, regardless of what you think of him, it's far more likely that he knows someone who is more informed on the matter than you or I.

31 minutes ago, waktasz said:

It doesn't have a trigger safety. Instant fail. At least for the FBI trials. At least I think I read that somewhere

I believe you're mistaken. 

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Wow, I put over ten thousand rounds through my 320 without a single failure. 

I love my 320, but how many rounds YOU put through it, doesn't instantly justify its merits as a service weapon. Most of us on this forum are speaking from a competition background and our use of the pistol is in that context. Some have law enforcement backgrounds or military, but I would venture to say "almost" nobody has carried the 320 as a work gun.

As someone familiar with small arms procurement, it's not always as easy picking your favorite gun. It goes through a battery of tests.

A local department that am familiar with chose Glocks over 320 hands down. To the disgust of the range master I might add, he was pushing the SIg hard. That is not to say the service sig is better or worse than service Glock. They are both great guns, but there is a reason the SEALs and MARSOC just adopted Glocks.

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Based on what I have read, it may have been because Glock custom made a gun that checked all their boxes, but would be compatible with all existing holsters, mags, accessories, and training that all the agents already had. Would make very good financial sense compared to starting with a whole new gun platform...

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47 minutes ago, EngineerEli said:

Based on what I have read, it may have been because Glock custom made a gun that checked all their boxes, but would be compatible with all existing holsters, mags, accessories, and training that all the agents already had. Would make very good financial sense compared to starting with a whole new gun platform...

That would certainly make sense.  I was just trying to see if someone could verify or disprove the "failed miserably" rumor.

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As someone familiar with small arms procurement, it's not always as easy picking your favorite gun. It goes through a battery of tests.
A local department that am familiar with choose Glocks over 320 hands down. To the disgust of the range master I might add, he was pushing the SIg hard. That is not to say the service sig is better or worse than service Glock. They are both great guns, but there is a reason the SEALs and MARSOC just adopted Glocks.


I believe customer service has something to do with it as well. I understand Glock really takes care of its law enforcement customers.

At times I've had trouble getting SIG parts for customers guns. That wouldn't fly if you're trying to keep an entire police department running.
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5 hours ago, Rangerdug said:

I love my 320, but how many rounds YOU put through it, doesn't instantly justify its merits as a service weapon. Most of us on this forum are speaking from a competition background and our use of the pistol is in that context. Some have law enforcement backgrounds or military, but I would venture to say "almost" nobody has carried the 320 as a work gun.

As someone familiar with small arms procurement, it's not always as easy picking your favorite gun. It goes through a battery of tests.

A local department that am familiar with chose Glocks over 320 hands down. To the disgust of the range master I might add, he was pushing the SIg hard. That is not to say the service sig is better or worse than service Glock. They are both great guns, but there is a reason the SEALs and MARSOC just adopted Glocks.

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I do agree with you. 

MARSOC was just called SOC in my day. And we ditched the newly issued   Beretta back for the 1911. And an MP-5.  ? 

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23 hours ago, Rangerdug said:

I love my 320, but how many rounds YOU put through it, doesn't instantly justify its merits as a service weapon. Most of us on this forum are speaking from a competition background and our use of the pistol is in that context. Some have law enforcement backgrounds or military, but I would venture to say "almost" nobody has carried the 320 as a work gun.

 

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my dept switched over to the p320 this year, replacing our old S&W 5906

and to tell the truth I miss my old smith, don't get me wrong the 320 is a excellent gun, and of all the striker fired guns I've tried

it is the only one I like out of the box, but I guess I'm a steel frame kind of guy

As far as procurement goes, when we did our trials, the glock and sig both passed, the glock was cheaper, but sig was preferred 

and from what I heard, they had to jump thru hoops to get the more expensive gun approved.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

My department switched from P226 DAK in .40 to P320 9mm this spring. We got a sweetheart deal from SIG and made the switch over the complaints of many Officers. Don't get me wrong, I like the P320. When my chief told me it was going down, I bought a personal one that has been hands down more reliable and accurate than my off duty personal Glocks ever were. But our duty guns have had a few issues. Multiple pistols of every size (we're allowed to carry what we like) had FTE, FTF, etc. SIG backed up their product and replaced all the extractors, pins, and springs. We are currently awaiting brand new magazines for all of our full and carry sized pistols due to a mid-production design change. I'm not happy with a new pistol being pushed to LE that has had so many issues in such a short period of time. But that seems to be the new way of manufacturers. Glock had that with the release of the Gen4 and it seems SIG has it with the P320. I'll I can say is that they're at least getting us the replacements for free and in a timely fashion. 

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I have noticed my original P320fs in .40sw serial number 2xxx, which was in the first batch that was sent to the largest SIG dealer in the U.S. has performed amazingly. My x-change kits and P320sc serial number 19xxx however is noticeably lesser in quality. None of my FCUs, slides, or grips have had any malfunctions or reliability issues, but there is a noticeable difference in fit, finish, and accuracy.

Having work for a large manufacturing company. I'm guessing the issue is the volume of guns they are trying to put out since the explosion in popularity.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/7/2016 at 3:31 PM, Santa85 said:

My department switched from P226 DAK in .40 to P320 9mm this spring. We got a sweetheart deal from SIG and made the switch over the complaints of many Officers. Don't get me wrong, I like the P320. When my chief told me it was going down, I bought a personal one that has been hands down more reliable and accurate than my off duty personal Glocks ever were. But our duty guns have had a few issues. Multiple pistols of every size (we're allowed to carry what we like) had FTE, FTF, etc. SIG backed up their product and replaced all the extractors, pins, and springs. We are currently awaiting brand new magazines for all of our full and carry sized pistols due to a mid-production design change. I'm not happy with a new pistol being pushed to LE that has had so many issues in such a short period of time. But that seems to be the new way of manufacturers. Glock had that with the release of the Gen4 and it seems SIG has it with the P320. I'll I can say is that they're at least getting us the replacements for free and in a timely fashion. 

Was there a problem with your P226 guns or was it a switch for switch's sake?  So often, I see departments try to justify moving from one gun to another for some kind of reason or another (change caliber, etc.); but most of the time, it doesn't *need* to be done.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have the Full Size P320 in .40 cal. and a Compact P320 in 9mm.  I have had both for close to a year and have not had any issues with either handgun.  Both guns have around 800 rounds through them.

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I have the Full Size P320 in .40 cal. and a Compact P320 in 9mm.  I have had both for close to a year and have not had any issues with either handgun.  Both guns have around 800 rounds through them.


This going to sound harsh, but please understand my response is with in context of the OP. Now, the response; AND? Are these 800rds work related or personal use? Either way, that is not a lot to justify why the 320 is better than the Glock.
Since we have ripped the bandaid off the wound of this old thread, I feel that many Sig owners(to include myself) know why the glock won!!! Customer Service!!! If Sig treats the contract customers the way they treat Joe Blow, they deserve to lose!


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  • 4 weeks later...

Hmmm. I've put a lot of rounds through a lot of guns and my S&W's and Sigs have had issues, where as my Glocks have not. I sold all of the S&W's, kept all the Glocks (and still carry a G19/G43), but I shoot the Sig...a lot. Once the extractor was replaced, my backup P320 ran great, and still does. My primary P320 ran great but also developed extraction issue around 5k rounds, and replacing the extractor remedied the issue. So it seems that there really are issues with their extractors, perhaps poor manufacturing and/or QA, but giving credit where credit is due, the P320 is my favorite pistol to date, and it runs great with a good extractor. The S&W's are seriously hit and miss and wouldn't carry or compete with them. In fact, I dumped 5 of 6 of the ones I had. Do my Glocks shoot like my Sigs? Nope. But the Glocks ALWAYS work. The Sigs haven't proven themselves to me YET for carry, but time will tell. 

I say all of this to say I understand the decision to go with the Glock. Just sayin'.

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Glocks aren't without issues. Or without teething problems rather.

The original frames were prone to failure with 40 and/or hot 9mm. Hence the creation of the two pin locking block.

Gen3 guns threw alot of brass in people's faces. Heck. They still do this even with a different extractor.

The Gen4 guns were unreliable for alot of folks until Glock teeaked the new design and tightened things up.

Now the new 19M and 17M are having a few issues.

Is the 320 perfect? Nope. But neither is the Glock.

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I can't speak to the P320 because I've not shot one, but I can say that as far as P220 and P226 guns go, I've never had a single failure of any kind over a 20 year period of being issued one.  For the last couple of years I've been carrying Glocks at work, and while they are very reliable, I can't say that I haven't had an occasional failure.  But, since I've modified triggers and magazine capacity, I can't really put the blame on Glock either......

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The Glock suffers from the flaw that the trigger must be pulled prior to disassembly. Design flaw or training issue but the bottom line is telling anyone to pull the trigger for something other than shooting is one improper clearing procedure away from a negligent discharge. Not an issue for "gun people" but certainly something to be considered for a mass issue kind of deal.

The 320, Ruger American and even the M&P have a takedown procedure that doesn't require a trigger pull. Yeah the M&P can be taken apart by pulling the trigger but this isn't mentioned anywhere in the M&P manuals.

On another note, I find the chassis idea intriguing. Again, from a mass issue kind of deal I see some interesting benefits. An officer or department armorer can configure a pistol based on grip size or magazine length. Even caliber can be changed without issuance of another firearm. Not a concern for most shooters but likely a benefit to a huge agency with 1,000's of guns in inventory.

Another thing with the chassis is that the frame can be thrown away and replaced without completely tossing the gun. Not that it happens often but my agency throws guns away that have broken trigger guards or something similar from drops, spills, accidents, etc. It would be a significant savings to swap in a $35 frame and put the gun back into service rather than scrap it as junk.





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