Glock 35 slide weight reduction for major - When is too much?

[Norone]

Yall,

I am considering reducing the weight of G35 slide for major but wanted to see who else out here has done this with regrets. What were the effects liked and disliked?

Thank you!

[wgj3]

Less reciprocating mass rocks! Do it!

[Norone]

Ughhhhhh.... Im torn!
Thanks!

[PrimaryBruce]

Not possible to take too much weight off.

Edited August 12, 2016 by PrimaryBruce

[Norone]

My fear, as anyones, is the recoil will be snappier and the return will be high and higher on target. Especially if its major. Indeed, gripping and stance and the structure can and will mitigate that but as I struggle now with it, well, like I said.
Thanks!

[bockerSV]

Reciprocating mass is bad mass.

[PrimaryBruce]

My fear, as anyones, is the recoil will be snappier and the return will be high and higher on target. Especially if its major. Indeed, gripping and stance and the structure can and will mitigate that but as I struggle now with it, well, like I said.

Thanks!

You're thinking about it the totally wrong way. Less slide weight = less recoil, not more/snappier.

[LilBunniFuFu]

My fear, as anyones, is the recoil will be snappier and the return will be high and higher on target. Especially if its major. Indeed, gripping and stance and the structure can and will mitigate that but as I struggle now with it, well, like I said.

Thanks!

Once the weight is off you need to try out different recoil spring weights until you find one that works for you.

[Norone]

You guys are great! Thank you!

[darkvibe]

On 8/12/2016 at 1:10 PM, PrimaryBruce said:

You're thinking about it the totally wrong way. Less slide weight = less recoil, not more/snappier.

I don't really agree with that. The slide is lighter but its also moving faster.  

I bought an aftermarket lightened slide for my G35.  I use 180gr bullets over WST running about 172PF.  I have shot my factory slide and lightened slide back to back on the same frame with the same ammo.  

Generally speaking, the lightened slide feels like it comes back on target faster but the recoil feels sharper.  

If I had to do it all over again I would not have gotten a lightened slide.  I would have gotten front serrations milled into my factory slide.

 

[PrimaryBruce]

3 minutes ago, darkvibe said:

I don't really agree with that. The slide is lighter but its also moving faster.  

I bought an aftermarket lightened slide for my G35.  I use 180gr bullets over WST running about 172PF.  I have shot my factory slide and lightened slide back to back on the same frame with the same ammo.  

Generally speaking, the lightened slide feels like it comes back on target faster but the recoil feels sharper.  

If I had to do it all over again I would not have gotten a lightened slide.  I would have gotten front serrations milled into my factory slide.

 

You can agree or disagree, but it's very simple physics. There's nothing to debate. Less moving mass = less recoil. Plain and simple.

[darkvibe]

3 hours ago, PrimaryBruce said:

You can agree or disagree, but it's very simple physics. There's nothing to debate. Less moving mass = less recoil. Plain and simple.

The simple physics says that kinetic energy of the slide is equal to 1/2MV^2.  If you lighten the slide then the velocity will be higher.

Think about it for a minute.  You are dissipating a fixed about of energy from the ammo.  It doesn't just disappear.

[mwinter501]

On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 10:32 AM, darkvibe said:

The simple physics says that kinetic energy of the slide is equal to 1/2MV^2.  If you lighten the slide then the velocity will be higher.

Think about it for a minute.  You are dissipating a fixed about of energy from the ammo.  It doesn't just disappear.

Let me preface this by saying I'm in the much less scientific corner of "Lightened slides feel better to me."

I looked up the formula to be sure I was reading it correctly. As I read it, it states Ke=1/2MV^2, or, Kinetic energy equals one half times mass times velocity squared.

Therefore, since you are lowering the amount of mass, which is on the one side of the equation, it must lower the amount of kinetic energy. For example....

Lets say Mass = 8 and Velocity = 4

That would mean KE=1/2*8(4^2) -----> KE=4*16-----KE=64

So, if we lower the mass to 6, for example. Mass = 6 and Velocity = 4

That would make KE=1/2*6(4^2) ----> KE=3*16---->KE=48

This is accounting for a lesser mass (20% in this case), but a constant velocity (assuming we're using the same ammo and same recoil spring). This ends up resulting in a 25% decrease in kinetic energy.

 

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm just a mouth-breathing high school graduate.

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by mwinter501
grammatical error

[darkvibe]

Doesn't work that way. Conservation of energy. Ke is constant so if you lower M then V gets larger. 

[mwinter501]

youre right, I see now. Ke is the constant of the ammo which is fixed. I was solving for ke. 

 

that being said, I prefer a lightened slide/spring combo. I don't notice the increased velocity in the form of felt recoil, but do notice the sight seems to settle more quickly. 

[ClangClang]

On 8/15/2016 at 6:23 AM, PrimaryBruce said:

You can agree or disagree, but it's very simple physics. There's nothing to debate. Less moving mass = less recoil. Plain and simple.

You're right, it IS simple physics. But your physics are wrong.

[PrimaryBruce]

1 hour ago, mwinter501 said:

 

that being said, I prefer a lightened slide/spring combo. I don't notice the increased velocity in the form of felt recoil, but do notice the sight seems to settle more quickly. 

Yep. The top guys in the race gun world aren't shooting lightened slides becuase it makes recoil worse. lol

[bthoefer]

3 hours ago, PrimaryBruce said:

Yep. The top guys in the race gun world aren't shooting lightened slides becuase it makes recoil worse. lol

Lighter slides tend to cycle faster (all else being equal) due to the higher slide velocity which causes them to settle quicker. Felt recoil is usually a little sharper feeling, but that is a subjective feeling. 

 

[Norone]

Seems, seems that is, that finding the 'right' recoil spring weight would temper finding what recoil impulse you like. Bill drill a lot on 7, 10, and 15 yard targets to see what augments your grip/structure can account for as well.
Me, the G35 on a 13lb recoil spring, has that "shimmy" with 180s at the end of cycle. I am still finding that happy place on my grip for consistency. On a 15lb'r it had that 'dip' to it as well I didnt like. The 200s do not shimmy or dip, but the 200s do make the slide recover higher on the target and I have to lower the gun on say, like a 15 yard target to get back in the A zone. 

[CaptainOverkill]

On 8/15/2016 at 7:18 AM, darkvibe said:

I don't really agree with that. The slide is lighter but its also moving faster.  

I bought an aftermarket lightened slide for my G35.  I use 180gr bullets over WST running about 172PF.  I have shot my factory slide and lightened slide back to back on the same frame with the same ammo.  

Generally speaking, the lightened slide feels like it comes back on target faster but the recoil feels sharper.  

If I had to do it all over again I would not have gotten a lightened slide.  I would have gotten front serrations milled into my factory slide.

 

This is the same thing I've observed with a lightened slide vs. full weight in a 2011. I prefer the faster, sharper impulse with the lighter slide, but it definitely hits my hand harder.

[DreGarciaTAT2]

You can agree or disagree, but it's very simple physics. There's nothing to debate. Less moving mass = less recoil. Plain and simple. [emoji4]

Uh, you're physics teacher would be very disappointed in you.
So, recoil... Is felt force... FORCE...
What is force, it's mass times velocity SQUARED... The larger factor of how much force something has is the SPEED at which it travels... Not its weight.

So just to keep this simple, as it seems some peoples physics knowledge is a bit rusty...
If a slide weighed 5 units... And moved at a speed of 3 units... The force would be:
5 * 3(squared) ... So 5 * 9 = 45 force units
And if you lightened the slide to 4 units and it increased speed to 4 units...
4 * 4)squared) ... 4 * 16 = 64 force units

More force, more recoil... Understand now? It's very simple physics, after all. [emoji6]


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[DreGarciaTAT2]

I just saw a bunch of people jumped on this... Good. I'm glad people know their physics!!


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[eisenhow]

8 hours ago, DreGarciaTAT2 said:

 

Uh, you're physics teacher would be very disappointed in you.
So, recoil... Is felt force... FORCE...
What is force, it's mass times velocity SQUARED... The larger factor of how much force something has is the SPEED at which it travels... Not its weight.

 

Ehh, force? No kinetic energy is mass times velocity squared.  Force is mass times acceleration.  Momentum is mass times velocity.

[kneelingatlas]

There are a lot of moving parts when a semi-automtic pistol fires: bullet, barrel, slide, hammer, the entire pistol and the shooter's hand and mass in not the only thing effecting the subjective "feel", there are also spring constants, coefficients of friction, heat, light, sound, and plenty others I'm not thinking of, so I don't think you can simply plug two numbers into an equation and call the problem solved.

CHA-LEE put a lot of time and energy into a very informative thread of slide lightening: 

I've done lots of testing of my own and found results consistent with Charlie's.  My first lightened slide had all the weight (1.8oz) taken from the front and I felt it increased the muzzle flip, I now take equal weight from the front and rear which gives much better results, I'm also a big fan of increasing stroke.

[kneelingatlas]

To the OPs question: I don't know how much a G35 slide weighs, but 10oz seems to be the magic number for a complete slide, under which not many people go, weigh yours and let us know.

Since the G35 already has the coffin cut up front, I would focus on the rear of the slide when cutting.