Will Freedom Munitions Never Learn?

[mjmagee67]

FWIW I've seen the stepped brass separate on both Major and Minor PF guns. I've also heard of problems with heavy bullets that are loaded short. FM just annoys me with their shenanigans, just more time to sorting 9mm  

Edited February 8, 2017 by mjmagee67

[njl]

As long as their brass holds together for the first firing, it's our problem, not theirs.  I've been finding their new American Steel brass at the outdoor range.  It rusts through the brass plating pretty quickly when left outdoors in the dirt.

[Sarge]

29 minutes ago, 57K said:

Freedom Munitions is not the only company at fault here and seeing stepped brass could become a more common issue with budget brands. The thing is, they are, as often occurs, simply following the lead of a major manufacturer of pistols. Walther specifically who decided it was cheaper to mill 2 straight holes of slightly differing diameters than continue to buy and use tapered mills for chambers that fire a round that has a tapered case. No stepped chambers for me, but Walther and other pistolmakers could care less about the affect that this has for handloaders.

They are only stepped on the inside. General consensus is it's to keep a Bullet from being pushed in further. 

 Regardless, freedom has quit making it last I heard

[gerritm]

Now that I have been really checking all headstamps I have been running across brass marked "Xtreme". One of Freedom's brands. Not sure if this is taking the place of the brass with "FM" marked on it. They are not magnetic or stepped.

 

gerritm

[olstyn]

On 2/9/2017 at 6:09 PM, 57K said:

Walther specifically who decided it was cheaper to mill 2 straight holes of slightly differing diameters than continue to buy and use tapered mills for chambers that fire a round that has a tapered case. No stepped chambers for me, but Walther and other pistolmakers could care less about the affect that this has for handloaders.

 

Not everything is a conspiracy designed to ruin things for the end user.  In this case, it appears to simply be Walther reverting to the original Luger design for the chamber: http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?30176-The-Story-Behind-the-Stepped-9mm-Luger-Chamber

 

As far as handloading for it goes, I haven't found that the stepped chamber in my P99 makes any significant difference vs the "normal" chamber in my P99c - sure, it leaves a shiny ring around fired cases, but said cases have reloaded and shot again just fine for me.  YMMV, and I suppose there's a chance that the stepped chamber could wear out cases somewhat more quickly than a tapered one would, but frankly, most of my brass comes from the great brass exchange that is a USPSA match, vs carefully picking up and re-using the same cases over and over, so it's not something I'm terribly worried about.

[olstyn]

57K, I'm not trying to claim that a stepped chamber is better than a tapered one, simply that in my direct, personal experience, it has not caused problems in the way that you describe.  Fired cases from my gun don't look bottle-necked.  I will agree with you that it would be nice not to have to deal with how short the chamber is in that pistol (MG JHPs max out at 1.075" OAL - any longer and they won't pass the plunk test), but it's not like it's some sort of catastrophe.  Load workup is pretty much the same as it otherwise would be, except that you have to be a bit more cautious than normal as you approach the upper end of the charge range.

 

I also never claimed that post-match range brass was in any way guaranteed to be once fired; I simply meant that I don't worry much about re-using the same specific cases over and over in my stepped chamber because only a small percentage, if any, of what I pick up after a match was fired in my gun.  That said, the ones I am able to identify as mine have all loaded and fired just fine the second (or more) time.

[olstyn]

23 hours ago, 57K said:

 

Seems like the P-99 was mentioned and I don't think their chambers were stepped originally. It came somewhere in the line of PPQ production where my shooting partner had an interest in buying the PPQ M2 but bought the VP9 instead.

 

That is correct.  My P99c (compact version, purchased in 2010) is a "normal" chamber, and my full size with the stepped chamber was a 2016 purchase, so somewhere in between there, they changed the chamber design.  I don't doubt that what you've observed is true, but I bet those are multiple times fired in a stepped chamber, and that it's a gradual process.  One or two firings at ~130 PF doesn't seem to make a big change in geometry.  If I had a hand press, I'd be interested to set up at the range, start with a truly once-fired case, and see how many firings it takes before noticeable and/or permanent change sets in.

 

I can't fault your friend for choosing a VP9; HK makes great guns too, and you're certainly right that they don't impose the same reloading challenges - I just happen to like the ergonomics well enough to put up with the IMO minor challenges.

[3gunDQ]

#9problems ...shoot super, problem solved. 

[kevin c]

So, an update on my experiment described in post # 26, 8/2/16:

 

Of the 500 cases, about three hundred made it to the 20th loading. The rest were lost or were discarded because of case mouth splits (running 5 to 10 percent splits in the last half dozen loadings). I had zero case separations.

 

For me, loading 147 grain polymer coated bullets to minor PF, through factory Glock barrels, the case separation issue simply hasn't happened (though I personally know others who have had it happen). I am not going to worry about it for my guns and loads.

 

Steel cases, though...