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Prima V & SV 9mm loads


v1911

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Had some time to load up 12 different load combinations using Bayou 124gr RN, Zero 147gr JHP and Acme 147gr FN. All shot very soft but there was some concern about some suspect primer signs of over pressure. Posted will be the chrony results, accuracy tests at 7 yrds and pics of the suspect primers. Note: I found atleast 1 suspect primer in each and every load configuration tested

Chrony Results

Acme 147gr FM:

Prima SV: 2.8gr

Avg: 883fps

SD: 10

ES: 27

PF: 129

Prima SV: 3.0gr

Avg: 917fps

SD: 7

ES: 18

PF: 134

Prima V: 2.8gr

Avg: 861fps

SD: 6

ES: 17

PF: 126

Prima V: 3.0gr

Avg: 897fps

SD: 10

ES: 26

PF: 131

Zero 147gr JHP:

Prima SV: 3.0gr

Avg: 844fps

SD: 10

ES: 25

PF: 124

Prima SV: 3.2gr

Avg: 875fps

SD: 3

ES: 8

PF: 128

Prima V: 3.0gr

Avg: 826fps

SD: 7

ES: 19

PF: 121

Prima V: 3.2gr

Avg: 858fps

SD: 3

ES: 8

PF: 126

Bayou 124gr RN:

Prima SV: 3.2gr

Avg: 1002fps

SD: 13

ES: 38

PF: 124

Prima SV: 3.4gr

Avg: 1049fps

SD: 4

ES: 11

PF: 130

Prima V: 3.2gr

Avg: 978fps

SD: 21

ES: 57

PF: 121

Prima V: 3.4gr

Avg: 1000fps

SD: 9

ES: 27

PF: 124

Accuracy Tests (Best of the 5 shot groups in no particular order)

IMG_1945.jpg

IMG_1943.jpg

IMG_1941.jpg

IMG_1936.jpg

IMG_1933.jpg

Suspect Primers

IMG_4560.jpg

As far as the primers are concerned, it doesn't look promising. These were S&B primers. I wonder if the same would show true of CCI primers. I really like the feel of these powders. Felt just like my Clay Dot loads, but a bit cheaper cost wise. If I can't find a suitable 9mm load I may try using this in .45.

Edited by v1911
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Gans Guns 9mm

5777286a-c4a2-4e6a-a7e6-8c25393ad81d.jpg

Hmm, pointing out the round primer edges is a good observation. I'll take a look and see if there is damage to my firing pin.

Update: Firing pin is ok.

Edited by v1911
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Gans Guns 9mm

5777286a-c4a2-4e6a-a7e6-8c25393ad81d.jpg

Hmm, pointing out the round primer edges is a good observation. I'll take a look and see if there is damage to my firing pin.

Update: Firing pin is ok.

I had a gun a long time ago that had a large firing pin hole on the breech face. I don't even remember which one as it was over 12 years ago and I don't have it anymore. It would make primers look cratered around the pin strike.

Not saying that's what's going on with your situation though. Especially if it doesn't do it with other ammo.

Edited by d_striker
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How does it compare to N320 in terms of recoil feel? Is it flakes or sticks/balls?

Very soft recoil. Comparable to Clays or N320. It's a granular powder. Almost like someone took Nerds (the candy) and shrank them down. It's unlike anything I've used before. Meters like a dream though.

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Those primers aren't showing pressure signs, bro. You're good to go. The edges are still nicely rounded, and that little bit of primer splash is nothing. No worries. ;)

However, I too would have liked to have seen accuracy out at 20/25 yards. At seven yards, those groups are effectively the same.

I would also suggest you develop more of a ladder to see what's going on with changes in velocity per incremental charge weight. Your load there that would be most pressure sensitive to charge increases is the 147gr ACME with SV, yet with the SV from 2.8gr to 3.0gr, you got an increase of 34 feet/sec. For a powder that's getting you to 917 feet/sec at 3.0gr with a 147gr lead bullet, 34 feet/sec is a pretty nice jump in velocity for a .2gr increase. BUT we can't really see how that's developing to predict where things will go with another increase. You might want to try these with 3 or 4 steps to the ladder. IF that works out this way:

2.8gr -- 883
2.9gr -- 900
3.0gr -- 917

If it works out that way, where you're getting 17 feet/second per .1gr, it would look like you could go a couple tenths higher, at least, without worry. However, if it's

2.8gr -- 883
2.9gr -- 910
3.0gr -- 917

If it works out that way, that big jump to 2.9gr would make it look like you needed 2.9gr to get a good pressure seal, and then the extra 7 feet/sec at 3.0 is a very small jump, suggesting you're quickly approaching the powder's useful limit on velocity with that bullet, and maybe shouldn't go further.

And then there's everywhere in between, which is probably where these loads are. I'd be interested in seeing a 2.8/2.9/3.0/3.1 ladder with the SV. I have 3 pounds of Prima V and 1 pound of SV, all unopened and untested. I could be happy with Bullseye for 9mm minor forever, but I can't help but experiment. I think maybe it's time for some Vectan tests. ;)

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I get primers looking like that as well in 9mm and .40 with S&B primers fired from my Sig's and haven't been overly concerned with it.

I shoot Beretta's as well, but I don't really rely on them to judge anything, as they always exhibit "primer flow" around the firing pin.

Next time I'm loading, I'l try a few CCI primers for a comparison.

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I'll try with CCI primers next time and report and changes. But it would seem the general consensus is that these are signs of over pressured round. Is that correct?

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I'll try with CCI primers next time and report and changes. But it would seem the general consensus is that these are signs of over pressured round. Is that correct?

I think the general consensus is that those are not signs of over pressure.

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I am going to state my findings, even though I have been insulted for such.

I always start at about the lowest starting load I can find. This only happens with 9x19, but it has happened twice. I start quite low and teice I have found flattened primers ( your primers look just fine next to these). Both times, the cases were covered in soot ( pressure too low to expand case) and gun didn't reliably cycle. So, I went to next increment up and got sooty cases, good cycling, and "perfect" looking primers.

Thus, remember that primer flattening can be an indication of over-pressure, but it is not a guarantor. So, unless you also saw high velocity, high recoil, cases thrown further than normal, or something else, you may have just found the same thing I did.

Again, those primers don't look worrisome at all.

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Once I get my CCP gun back from STI, I'll be working up some more 124gr loads. As requested, I'll work up .1 increments. I may or may not accuracy test out to 25 yards. My marksmanship isn't great, so my results my not be flattering to the gun or load. Also, CCI primers will be used.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Took the remainder of these sample loads and shot them through my XDm yesterday. Showed no primer flow. Odd that my STI did as there have been no previous issues with other loads and primer flow. I'll have my CCP gun back in hand today. I'll work up some more loads around the 124gr bullet and post my results as soon as next week.

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Thanks for posting the load and chrono data on Prima V and SV . I have not tried Prima SV but Prima V is now my go-to powder for 9mm minor . I'm getting very similar chrono results with same weight bullets . My Prima V 147 gr. loads feel softer than n-320 loads and I like the recoil impulse better than Clays or Clay Dot loads.

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Like a kid after Xmas, I couldn't wait to shoot my Costa (CCP gun) and headed out again today. I still had about 50 rounds of assorted test loads. None showed primer flow and everything locked back reliably. Since I'm getting reliable slide lock with the 147gr, I won't need to experiment any further with either the 147gr or 124gr. Between the 3 different bullets and 2 powders, I have enough recipes for success.

Next project:

147gr HST loads.

Should have something to post in about a week.

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Can you tell us what overall length you used for these loads? Without that, data is only somewhat useful.

Doh! Thanks for pointing that out.

OAL on all loads was 1.145

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I figured that rather than starting my own thread, I would add this to this thread to get more data in a single thread for future searchers:
All loads shot through an HK VP9:
Pistol: HK VP9
Bullet: SNS 135gr RN
Powder: Vectan Prima V
Primers: S&B
Brass: Mixed Brass
OAL: 1.155
3.4gr Avg fps - 971 fps | SD-6 | ES-19
3.5gr Avg fps - 983 fps | SD-7 | ES-17
3.6gr Avg fps - 992 fps | SD-5 | ES-17
3.7gr Avg fps - 1005 fps | SD-8 | ES-32
___________________________________
Pistol: HK VP9
Bullet: Precision Delta 124gr JHP
Powder: Vectan Prima V
Primers: S&B
Brass: Mixed Brass
OAL: 1.125
3.7gr Avg fps - 1004 fps | SD-8 | ES-24
3.9gr Avg fps - 1030 fps | SD-9 | ES-29
4.0gr Avg fps - 1052 fps | SD-10| ES-29
___________________________________
Pistol: HK VP9
Bullet: Bayou Bullets 124gr TCG
Powder: Vectan Prima V
Primers: S&B
Brass: Mixed Brass
OAL: 1.118
3.7gr Avg fps - 1041 fps | SD-4 | ES-13
3.9gr Avg fps - 1061 fps | SD-6 | ES-16
___________________________________

The reason there are only two strings with the Bayou 124gr TCG is that I am effectively out of them. I've had a handful left sitting in a box for while and decided to do something with them. Those two strings ended up being the accuracy standouts for the day. That bullet is awesome. I need to buy more.

Pistol: HK VP9

Edited by IDescribe
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The difference between our guns and what we got out of SV with the 124gr coated loads in quite dramatic. What only took me 3.4gr to achieve, took you 3.7gr with a shorter OAL. Very interesting indeed. Notice anything peculiar with your primers?

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My BAD! This data is for Prima V. I edited the post.

With me getting an extra 40 feet/sec than you for the extra .3gr of Prima V, I'd say our data is quite consistent.

Would you at the TC is more accurate than JHP
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