ZackJones Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I can't go into details yet (sorry) but this morning DNROI and USPSA President completed their review and approval of the Peak Stage Times for all divisions. We now have PST's for: Carry Optics Iron Sight Revolver Limited Open Optical Sight Revolver PCC Irons PCC Open Production Rimfire Pistol Irons Rimfire Pistol Open Rimfire Rifle Irons Rimfire Rifle Open Single Stack As soon as I'm permitted I'll share additional details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mtbboyz Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Great news, I'm excited to hear things are really moving forward at a good pace. Makes me feel better and better about my vote for USPSA president Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Cool. Glad that USPSA/HQ and the New Prez is working to get SCSA straightened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetx40 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Good deal. It will be a good thing for SCSA to finally have classifications for all of the guns being shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just curious... I shot with somebody yesterday who asked about SC times (good vs otherwise) and I suggested that he review the classification peak times. I was just going to forward him the link and the classification rules are still there but the peak times are removed. Are the peaks under review following the World Speed Shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl @ GT Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hey Zack, How does the process for updating the peak times work? Who does the voting? How many of the people that vote actually shoot steel challenge? What info do they use to determine the peak times? Thanks, Karl @ GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 21 minutes ago, Karl @ GT said: Hey Zack, How does the process for updating the peak times work? Who does the voting? How many of the people that vote actually shoot steel challenge? What info do they use to determine the peak times? Thanks, Karl @ GT We don't actually vote but President and DNROI are very involved in the process (Both of which shoot Steel Challenge) . We will also get the steel challenge committee to review our proposed revisions. The process works as follows: Since going live in early July I have been reviewing the results for times against the peak stage times from the following matches: FL State Steel Challenge - July 2016 Colorado State - August 2016 WSSC - August 2016 Indiana State - September 2016 PA State Championship - September 2016 (Waiting for results to be posted) SC State Championsip - October 2016 (Upcoming) AL State Championship - December 2016 (Upcoming) For each match I review stage results, by division, and record the times for any shooter that shoots faster than the current peak stage time. After the AL State Championship, which is in early December, I will complete my review and then recommend changes based on the review. At this time I'm concentrating on those divisions where we need to lower the PST's because people are regularly shooting times faster then the PST. Upon review and approval of the new PST's the Steel Challenge web site will be updated to reflect the new PSTs. The first Wednesday after the PST's are updated they will be used for classification. Let's suppose we lower the PST for a division people are going to want to now how that's going impact their classification. As far as the letter classification goes you will retain it even if we change the PST. Say for example the PST is 85 seconds and you shoot it in 100 seconds. That's 85% which is M class. Now suppose we drop the PST to 80 seconds. Your percentage now drops to 80% which is an A class percentage but because you had previously obtained M you will retain your M classification even though your percentage drops from 85 to 80 percent. Does that answer your questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl @ GT Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Hello Zack, Yes, thanks very much. The rules have always stated that you can not go DOWN in class once you reach that level. But with such a new classification system for all the new classes and the peak times not keeping up with the shooters, there are gonna be many shooters that will not be in the correct class. This may cause a problem later, sample: the Master class shooter you mentioned above, that shooter ends up in the middle of A class after all the times are sorted out. That shooter will never have a chance to win money or prizes at any large event that award by performance, or even a decent finish in Master class because his times and scores are not what they are capable of shooting in the real world. The President & others that make decisions may need to consider adjusting some of these shooters into the proper classification. Maybe on a shooter by shooter basis when the shooter requests a review. thanks for your help in sorting out SC, Karl @ GT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 All questions answered, Except the peak time chart still isn't showing on the webpage, LOL. Didn't mean to stir the pot, just wanted to forward the times to my friend for his reference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetx40 Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Karl @ GT said: Hello Zack, Yes, thanks very much. The rules have always stated that you can not go DOWN in class once you reach that level. But with such a new classification system for all the new classes and the peak times not keeping up with the shooters, there are gonna be many shooters that will not be in the correct class. This may cause a problem later, sample: the Master class shooter you mentioned above, that shooter ends up in the middle of A class after all the times are sorted out. That shooter will never have a chance to win money or prizes at any large event that award by performance, or even a decent finish in Master class because his times and scores are not what they are capable of shooting in the real world. The President & others that make decisions may need to consider adjusting some of these shooters into the proper classification. Maybe on a shooter by shooter basis when the shooter requests a review. thanks for your help in sorting out SC, Karl @ GT Zack I agree with Karl on the changing of a shooters class. If The new PST's would move me to a lower class then that is where I belong. If the SCSA committee agrees that the PST's should be altered then so should the classes of those that were incorrectly moved up. It's a new system and will require adjustment from time to time. So why then should any person be allowed to remain in a class up or down that the current system says they shouldn't be in. IT should be difficult to make Master and especially Grand Master!!!!! Edited October 2, 2016 by hornetx40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 3 hours ago, Karl @ GT said: The President & others that make decisions may need to consider adjusting some of these shooters into the proper classification. Maybe on a shooter by shooter basis when the shooter requests a review. Generally speaking I think we did a very good job with the PST's. Clearly we're off the mark in RFRO and PCCO. Those times are too high and shooters are being classified higher as a result. Just as with USPSA classification system a competitor can request to have his classification reviewed and adjusted. What we want to avoid are situations like we had with the initial classification conversion. We had some shooters drop classification due to converting from the old system that used times from all divisions to the new one that uses times from only the specific division. 2 hours ago, jkrispies said: All questions answered, Except the peak time chart still isn't showing on the webpage, LOL. Didn't mean to stir the pot, just wanted to forward the times to my friend for his reference... That's a bug on the web site. Anytime any of you guys/gals sees a problem like that email me at zack@uspsa.org so I can get it checked out. I've reported this issue and it'll be fixed tomorrow. 1 hour ago, hornetx40 said: Zack I agree with Karl on the changing of a shooters class. If The new PST's would move me to a lower class then that is where I belong. If the SCSA committee agrees that the PST's should be altered then so should the classes of those that were incorrectly moved up. It's a new system and will require adjustment from time to time. So why then should any person be allowed to remain in a class up or down that the current system says they shouldn't be in. IT should be difficult to make Master and especially Grand Master!!!!! As I mentioned above we can evaluate/reclassify when PSTs change but the direction is once obtained the letter classification is retained. Because of that we won't drop anyone even if their classification percentage is below the threshold of their current letter without their permission. It may be possible that we can identify people that would be dropped when the revisions are applied and ask them if they want to retain or be reclassified. When we revise RFRO and PCCO I'm going to see if it drops me and if it does I'm going to request mine be adjusted accordingly. I appreciate all of the questions and feedback. We need to hear this stuff. Feel free to contact me directly with any feedback on the PST's. If you see on that you think is too low let me so so I can look into it. I know there's a couple that I think may need to be bumped up. I will say the classification system appears to be a big step in the right direction. We are seeing increases in classification almost every week. The only time we see dips is at the end of the month then USPSA memberships expire. I don't have current numbers in front of me at the moment but from 12 July through 31 August the number of classified shooters increased from 3619 to 4286. 600+ new classifications in two months is encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) I do think RFRO is too lenient. I don't shoot RFPO so I can't say if those peak times are more appropriate or not, but from my studying times (mainly in West Coast Steel) I think that those two categories should be about equal in terms of peak times. If it were me I'd consider making them equal, whether it be by tightening up on RFRO to equalize it to RFPO, or having the two meet somewhere in the middle. Look at the World Speed Shoot overall times #11-22. Its a blend of rifle and pistol, all legit GM's, which is a good indication that the two platforms are about equal when it comes to overall time and fired by competent shooters. Edited October 2, 2016 by jkrispies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 I know RFRO and PCCO will be coming down. I just don't know how much yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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